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Discussion Starter #1
Opinions are needed from all helpers or anyone else who has ever taken a bite from a dog.
There is a discussion entitled "Bite pressure. PSI?" that is desprately in need of expert opinions. They are BEGGING for expert opinions, please help. It is in the "General Information" section.
 

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Appearantly my opinion is worthless. Maybe I should just stick to the "schutzhund" section where I can understand what people are talking about, and they can understand my humor (Poor as it is). I try to respond to some of these threads in other sections and it is like talking to folks from Mars or something. I am just amazed that there is such a difference in the way people view dogs and training. Of course I realized that people lacked knowledge about dogs but I just supposed that thay realized they were clueless and were willing to listen to reason. I guess not? After tonight and some of the PM's I received, I suppose I will have to reevaluate this position.
 

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Zahnburg,

Your humor is similar to my dads, so I got that. But, yeah, I think when you are posting other places besides SchH, you might need to be a little more patient and explain yourself a little more. Every "sub-culture" has its own lingo and special expertise. I find that, in general, if you treat people with respect they are much more open to listening to what you have to say. Calling people "clueless" is a good example of what will turn people off from learning from your expertise.

Reading from your previous posts in the SchH section it sounds like you have a lot of thoughts and knowledge to share. It is a shame to cloud it with these types of comments.

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.
 

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Originally Posted By: ZahnburgAppearantly my opinion is worthless. Maybe I should just stick to the "schutzhund" section where I can understand what people are talking about, and they can understand my humor (Poor as it is). I try to respond to some of these threads in other sections and it is like talking to folks from Mars or something. I am just amazed that there is such a difference in the way people view dogs and training. Of course I realized that people lacked knowledge about dogs but I just supposed that thay realized they were clueless and were willing to listen to reason. I guess not? After tonight and some of the PM's I received, I suppose I will have to reevaluate this position.
I am not sure what you wrote in other posts, but judging from what you said above, you really should consider lightening up a little!

"View from Mars"? You are really surprised that there are differences in how people view dogs and training? -- if you really are surprised at that, must not have talked to many folks about their views on dogs and training.

And you want people to "realize that they are clueless" and would listen to "reason"? I suppose that "reason" would be just your views and opinions?

That being the case, I guess that I could see someone as being clueless. Or maybe a veritable fountain of knowledge about dogs, eh!
 

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I don't find this to be the most "humorous" of all boards and it is difficult to place a smile or inflection into the typed word, so one can be misconstrued in humor. Also, there is a huge variety of experience with and understanding of the breed, so you have to take the wider audience here into account. And, of course, people don't know what they don't know. The "unknown unknown" is a tough thing to come up against.

I love that little Rummie saying!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Cod,
There are plenty of training theories that have merit. I do not have a problem with any method of training so long as there is reasoning behind it.
I talk to many people about training, there are those that I agree with and those that I do not agree with. I do not believe that one should ever become too content in their training methods as there is always something to be learned. However, some things are well-established and some things are simply common sense. What I do have a problem with is when people try to buck common sense or well-established theroms.
I also have a problem when folks start thinking of dogs as people. They are not people, they are dogs.
 

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Quote: it is like talking to folks from Mars or something
Sadly utterly agree on this one - I used to moderate on a popular cichlid forum (& that's cichlid NOT chiclid ) & yes, these people just transported in from Mars into a ready made home complete with fish tank is really the only way to explain the level of 'unknowledge'



poor little fishy
(can you tell I mod'd the Health Forum)


I haven't read many of Zahnburg's posts but reading this one was purely deja vue.
 

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Originally Posted By: ZahnburgAppearantly my opinion is worthless. Maybe I should just stick to the "schutzhund" section where I can understand what people are talking about, and they can understand my humor (Poor as it is). I try to respond to some of these threads in other sections and it is like talking to folks from Mars or something. I am just amazed that there is such a difference in the way people view dogs and training. Of course I realized that people lacked knowledge about dogs but I just supposed that thay realized they were clueless and were willing to listen to reason. I guess not? After tonight and some of the PM's I received, I suppose I will have to reevaluate this position.
Art,

When you have the opportunity, please return to the thread about the puppy shying away and read my second post. I know you disagree with my first post, but in my second I addressed a number of your arguments, as well as those of other members. I do have to agree, however, that your tone does sound less than respectful of others' opinions. We all have the right to express our opinions. I try never to be rude in speaking or in writing. Nor do I think sarcasm and name calling are acceptable. And since aggression was one of the issues under discussion on that thread, remember that the Greek root of sarcasm is sarx, or flesh,the derivative sarkazein to tear flesh, to bite one's lips in rage, hence to sneer, therefore, sarkasmos is flesh-tearing, or sneering.

Dogs have personalities, as do people. This does not mean I think dogs are furry people. A GSD does not have to do schutzhund to be a GSD.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@Bennett,

In regards to tone; my tone is a an obvious reflection of how I feel. If I sound less than respectful to certain opinions it is largely due to the fact that I am not respectful of them. If a person presents an argument that is full of holes or is any way lacking, I fully intend to punch it so full of holes that is painfully obvious to anyone who reads the thread. I believe, thus far, I have been quite restrained. I do not care so much for the feelings of people so much as I care about the well-being of our beloved breed. Additionally, people can not take discussions about dogs personally. These discussions are about dogs, not about you child. The view that some take, that any dog is perfect, is what results in the serious problems facing our breed today. I do concur that a GSD need not do schutzhund to be a GSD, however, I do believe that he must demonstrate the traits and attributes that a GSD should have, and that so many lack.
In regards to my humor; I seem to have a very dry and somewhat "tounge in cheek" humor. Some find me quite amusing others do not get it at all. I apologize, but I am quite incapable of change, nor would I if I could. I must also add that I have never, in any of my posts, been obscene, rude, or out-right mean.
Everyone, does, indeed, have the right to express an opinion. However, some opinions are more meaningful than others.
I will take another look at the thread you metion, but do not take offense if I reply and disagree with you.
Training is training, it is not personal. Just because I disagree with you or you with me, it does not make us enemies.
 

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Originally Posted By: ZahnburgIn regards to tone; my tone is a an obvious reflection of how I feel. If I sound less than respectful to certain opinions it is largely due to the fact that I am not respectful of them. If a person presents an argument that is full of holes or is any way lacking, I fully intend to punch it so full of holes that is painfully obvious to anyone who reads the thread.
Please be mindful of the board rules. You are obviously free to disagree with, and to not respect the opinions of anyone here, but the rules do specifically state that we must all be courteous and respect the feelings of others. This is just a friendly reminder, in case you did not read the rules that are in a sticky thread at the top of each forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Cass,
Please note the passage " I have never, in any of my posts, been obscene, rude or out right mean."
Thank you, for the friendly reminder and you can rest assured that I will continue to abide by any and all rules in the sticky thread at the top of each forum.
Happy Thanksgiving
 

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Originally Posted By: ZahnburgCass,
Please note the passage " I have never, in any of my posts, been obscene, rude or out right mean."
Yes I saw that. Although I think a few of your posts could be considered borderline rude and even somewhat mean, a blatant rule violation would have netted you an official warning, not a reminder. I know that some boards have a more free for all culture than this one, so people who are used to that environment, especially newer members, may not be aware that we hold members to a higher standard of conduct here. I appreciate your assurance that you intend to comply with the rules.
 

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Originally Posted By: Zahnburg...In regards to tone; my tone is a an obvious reflection of how I feel. If I sound less than respectful to certain opinions it is largely due to the fact that I am not respectful of them. If a person presents an argument that is full of holes or is any way lacking, I fully intend to punch it so full of holes that is painfully obvious to anyone who reads the thread. I believe, thus far, I have been quite restrained. I do not care so much for the feelings of people so much as I care about the well-being of our beloved breed. Additionally, people can not take discussions about dogs personally. These discussions are about dogs, not about you child. The view that some take, that any dog is perfect, is what results in the serious problems facing our breed today. I do concur that a GSD need not do schutzhund to be a GSD, however, I do believe that he must demonstrate the traits and attributes that a GSD should have, and that so many lack.
In regards to my humor; I seem to have a very dry and somewhat "tounge in cheek" humor. Some find me quite amusing others do not get it at all. I apologize, but I am quite incapable of change, nor would I if I could. I must also add that I have never, in any of my posts, been obscene, rude, or out-right mean.
Everyone, does, indeed, have the right to express an opinion. However, some opinions are more meaningful than others.
I will take another look at the thread you metion, but do not take offense if I reply and disagree with you.
Training is training, it is not personal. Just because I disagree with you or you with me, it does not make us enemies.
i would just like to point out that the purpose of this board is to help the owners/future owners learn. Everyone is here because they chose to be, because they wanted to learn and do right by their dog. Everyone here cares about the well being of the breed. Making a point to say you don't care about these people's feelings is doing nothing but turning people off from you (at least I hope thats all it does) I hope that everyone here knows that I DO care about your feelings and I'll always consider how you will feel when I respond to something, if we have a misunderstanding i'll work with you to clarify. I know that most of you respect mine..even when I ask stupid questions...there's a way to tell me hey I know this is your first dog you are here to learn here is what i think you are doing wrong...its called having respect for each other. My dog is my furkid...I love him like people but I understand he's a dog I don't treat him like a child. Just because thats not how you feel about your dog doesn't make you right or me. This board is for learning, there are many different opinions don't expect anyone to change what they think just because you say otherwise, nor would I expect you to do the same. Just to clarify for you how someone might feel...You did ask a poster if their dog was a POS...that is in no way funny if thats how you meant it and again most people here love their furkids so you basically called their kid a POS...its insulting not funny...okay tangent done
 

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Discussion Starter #16
@Sag,
There is a big difference between caring about a particular dog and the breed in general. The fact of the matter is that I do not seek nor do I require the approval of any memeber of this board. I am quite secure in my knowledge of the breed and of training methodology. This does not mean that there is not much more I can learn, thus I seek to instigate meaningful conversations with other trainers and fanciers of the breed. This can serve only to make me more closely examine my training methods and the kinds of dogs I produce. One must never be too secure in their training or breeding programs as this would prevent one from advancing his own knowledge.
I do love my dogs, I spend more time with my dogs than I do with my wife (sometimes I think she get jealous). This does not mean that I endow my dogs with human powers or rights. They are dogs, and their entire purpose in life is to work for me.
There is no such thing as a stupid question. However, when one asks a question one must be prepared to accept the answers provided, irregardless if the answers correspond to what the asker wants to hear. Additionally, I would not expect anyone to change their opinion based on mine. I would, however, expect that they take my reply into consideration.
In regards to asking a poster if her dog was a POS. In this particular case this was a necassary question as the quality of the dog was directly correlated to the answer. Again, this is about dogs and training, it is not personal.
 

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I can honestly see where you are coming from, Zahnburg but this is not a working dog forum. Not everyone here has the same goals with their dogs, so while your knowledge may be very insightful to a working dog, it does not apply to those who love and care for their GSD, and want nothing more than a wonderful, stable, happy pet. And their is NOTHING wrong with wanting a GSD as a pet. GSD's are one of the most (if not THE most) versatile dog breed out there and those who choose to love them should not be condemned because they do not work their dogs, or have no knowledge of a working temperament (and you can count me in that too, I know squat but am learning).
 

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Originally Posted By: Zahnburg
In regards to asking a poster if her dog was a POS. In this particular case this was a necassary question as the quality of the dog was directly correlated to the answer. Again, this is about dogs and training, it is not personal.
While I appreciate the fact that you're extremely impressed with yourself and your knowledge of GSDs and that you enjoy your dry sense of humor, alluding to another poster's dog as a POS, or asking the poster if her dog is a POS, is rude and uncalled for. Certainly a person of your perceived intelligence and knowledge of the breed can formulate a question to a fellow board member without lowering yourself to using such offensive terminology.
 

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I guess what I don't understand is the need to be rude? I always wonder about people like that--throwing around comments like "you know who I am"...as if all should bow to you. Whether you mean it like that or not, that is how it comes off. I don't know if you truly are as knowledgeable as you like to inflate yourself to be, but I do know that the "know it all" attitude is a turn-off, and even if you were indeed the absolute BEST, that a lot of people wouldn't even give your opinion the time of day because of the attitude that accompanies it.

Like your post that started this whole thing. Adding what is perceived as the pompous comment about not doing something "stupid" like going off and getting bit. Why did you even have to add that snide comment? As if she had said in her post that "ok, if no one know the true answer, I'm gonna go try it on my arm and let ya'all know!" And then to run off an make a whole new thread about how ignorant people are--because of what? That people are essentially saying what you did--you can't say for sure, but here's a fun video to watch anyway? Yikes.

And your "puppy shying away" posts. OK. So you don't want to socialize your dog. As if there has never been a truely successful Schutzhund dog that also gets to enjoy a fun life playing and socializing with other animals and then goes to work and does a good job? I mean, really???
 

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Troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

To me, you are a troll.

Maybe a very knowledgeable one. Maybe one we could learn a lot from, and I'm sure even one I agree a lot with. but I don't care anymore of your threads or your post, you are too childish and I don't like the tone in which you write as if you had arrived to this board to "save us" from something.
 
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