German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
These are the xrays from my vet. the ortho did some too but I didnt get copies (looked better to me, but what do I know) both said he needs to have surgery.
I researched the surgery and it looks pretty painful. Dexter is only 6 1/2 months. Do you think alternative management is possible and surgery later/ or surgery now? Right now we are doing adequan and laser therapy for pain and trying not to let him run. :( Any opinions are appreciated. I havent been able to sleep since I found out.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,126 Posts
You seem hesitant about the surgery, so I suggest you get a third opinion from another vet. You could take the x-rays with you.
 

·
Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
Joined
·
13,571 Posts
The right hip is fine. The left is well formed but there is severe laxity. Some of that may improve with age as the ligaments tighten with maturity. Given that x-ray, I personally wouldn't jump to surgery *unless* the dog was having symptoms that were unquestionably caused by the hips (not pano, back injury, pulled muscle, etc...) I would let the dog grow, keep him at a good, lean weight and physically fit, and see where the hips are at in another 6-12 months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,649 Posts
Those hips don't look that bad. :confused: The left is quite loose but he's just a pup. The right is fine, to my eye. Are you doing hydrotherapy? Supplements? Walks? I would wait a couple of months to see how all of the new stuff helps.

HAve you been to an ortho vet?

I was able to manage severe bilateral HD in my first gsd for 5 years without major surgery (got her a THR on one side at 5 years old). She did have a minor, salvage surgery at 1 year old on one side but I'm not sure it did anything to help. I kept her very strong--swimming, lots of walking, hiking, hills, etc. Kept the high impact exercise to a minimum. She did really long hikes, backpacking, etc.

Rafi came to me with HD at 1.5 years old, is now 7 and is doing fine. He has a high pain tolerance but his muscle tone is excellent and both of my vets recommended against surgery. I've got him on a million supplements and walk him 4 to 6 miles, at a very fast pace, every single day of the year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
@ Marybeth. A third opinion would be good, I was scared too since both are saying the same thing, that its bad.

@ Chris and Bow wow, I have seen an ortho vet, He said Dexter (im going to use layman terms because I dont understand the sublaxation degrees and all the terminology ) had shallow sockets and that even the "good hip" has a high chance to get worse. He said even a TPO may not be the best because of shallow sockets (everything seems to be about shallow sockets) and a full hip replacement may be the best.. Not to let him jump or run. Hydrotherapy would be good for him to build up muscle.

Since im already paying alot for Adequan and laser therapy, because Dex does favor the hip on his right. So I know he must be having some pain there. I decided to do the swimming , walking in water at home. I ordered a small above ground pool, but because I live in California where its very hot these days its on backorder. I should get it Wednesday.

The ortho vet is a an older man (was referred by my vet), maybe late 70s with a strong accent and his bedside manner leaves some lacking but my vet also said the same thing. Needless to say I left in tears from his office. I do think after reading your replies , I need a third opinion.

Dexter is getting an Adequan shot 2 x a week, laser 2 x a week, I have him on a joint supplement, Glucosamine with MSM, and fish oil. He is already on the thin side but is very tall. ( and 4 cups of food doesnt seem to do it for him anymore, hes still hungry, but im afraid to give him more) I bought him an orthopeadic mattress for his crate and a heating pad.

Ive been trying to read up as much as I can here regarding supplements. I do want to try the bone soup but I have no idea where to find animal hooves here in the city. I called 3 butchers in the area and they dont have them. They dont butcher the whole animal, instead they get large pieces and cut them up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I forgot to mention, that last night was the first night he didnt run when I took out his leash. He had just had 5th Adequan shot and 2nd laser therapy.

We walked him in the trails for an hour like we usually do and he didnt seem tired. Its hard to stop him from running because he likes to go back and forth between everyone and nose touch. Hes such a great dog.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,779 Posts
The right hip is fine. The left is well formed but there is severe laxity. Some of that may improve with age as the ligaments tighten with maturity. Given that x-ray, I personally wouldn't jump to surgery *unless* the dog was having symptoms that were unquestionably caused by the hips (not pano, back injury, pulled muscle, etc...) I would let the dog grow, keep him at a good, lean weight and physically fit, and see where the hips are at in another 6-12 months.
in a case like that, where one looks good and the other has such severe laxity, what are the odds (and possibly a case like that should warrant investigating) its actually a ligament issue or otherwise soft tissue injury or damage? I'm by no means an expert, but it looks like if it the laxity could be corrected it would otherwise be ok?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
I am thinking it is not the ball that is the question (that looks fine) but the socket itself is shallow and already showing significant deterioration for only 6.5 months (to my lay eyes).
My advice is to get at least 2-3 opinions from ortho people and then make the decision.
I <personally> would not want to make such a big decision based on the input of one ortho doc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,743 Posts
If you are only on the 5th Adequan shot, you are still on the "loading" dose. I didn't see big improvement for my old male who has arthritis in his hips until about the end of week 3, and even more week 4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
If you are only on the 5th Adequan shot, you are still on the "loading" dose. I didn't see big improvement for my old male who has arthritis in his hips until about the end of week 3, and even more week 4.
Yes, hes still loading. I hope we dont run out of Adequan. I hope to see him not favor the hip as much. I will see how it goes.

As far as the hips , yes the shallow socket is what both vets mention :(. But I have no idea what a socket should look like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Have you considered a vet who does chiropractic and homeopathic?


No, havent thought of it. But I can see how it might help in regards to the subluxation.Have you had any experience with chiro? did it help your situation?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
I would definitely say see a second ortho specialist. If the current one is nearly 70, there is a chance he may not be staying as up to date though it is hard to say. I am for alternative vets but not sure how they could help this particular issue other than pain management.

My severely dysplastic dog did not have exactly the same issue as yours but the ortho vet sent us to a PT who was able to build an exercise plan specific to her needs with the intent of pulling / maintaining the head in the socket as good as possible and we were able to never have surgery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Have you had any experience with chiro?

Yes I have. For the last four years of our girl's life we had a Vet who does chiro and also uses homeopathic meds. We also had another vet give her acupuncture. I truly believe that our little girl got to 14years and 2 months because of it. It helps with back problems, hip and any pain issues.

Not sure if it would help with subluxation but it would be worth finding out.

Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,743 Posts
Just saw you are in Los Angeles. I know of a vet in Pasadena with a vet-chiro, acupuncturist and full rehabilitation services (hydrotherapy, laser, etc.):
Rose City Veterinary Hospital - Veterinarian In Pasadena, CA USA :: Rehabilitation

I'm sure there are others, but I took my dog to this one years ago when I lived there for a second opinion when he was young and going through pano--I was very impressed that this vet came up with a supplement regimen to knock out the inflammation and pain without carprofen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Just saw you are in Los Angeles. I know of a vet in Pasadena with a vet-chiro, acupuncturist and full rehabilitation services (hydrotherapy, laser, etc.):
Rose City Veterinary Hospital - Veterinarian In Pasadena, CA USA :: Rehabilitation

I'm sure there are others, but I took my dog to this one years ago when I lived there for a second opinion when he was young and going through pano--I was very impressed that this vet came up with a supplement regimen to knock out the inflammation and pain without carprofen.
I talked to the PT person there last week. They offer hydrotherapy and laser therapy also.
Its out of my way to go to every other day because I work all the time and shes only there a few hours a day. But I set up an appt for a couple weeks from now when hes done with the adequan. I will talk to her about chiro when I go.
Right now im going between my regular vet and the ortho because one offers laser and the other the adequan and i already paid for both packages :blush:....its crazy right now..LOL. Hes doing alot better on the laser and adequan and i havent had to give him the pain medication since the sunday. hes walking an hour everyday and is even trying to jump on me at the end of the walk.
I can massage his hip now , but i would rather someone show me how to do it properly because im not sure if im doing it right. Sometimes he looks back at me and will sometimes gently grab my hand and move it away. Im keeping my fingers crossed and dont want to jinx it LOL. I very much want to try the chiropractor though and I will keep you updated when we go.

Thank You so much for thinking about us :D. I want to try everything before surgery.

oops saw that you did mention the hydrotherapy etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
My severely dysplastic dog did not have exactly the same issue as yours but the ortho vet sent us to a PT who was able to build an exercise plan specific to her needs with the intent of pulling / maintaining the head in the socket as good as possible and we were able to never have surgery.

This is exactly what i am hoping for. I remember the ortho saying something about the fact that the head is not in the socket is whats making the joint more shallow. he also said he believes its from an injury that went untreated. i know when my son used to take him to the park he would run around with him and one day he had a limp from one leg falling in a hole. He only limped for about 5 minutes but i wish i knew then what i know now in regards to an untreated injury even if it was a small one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Just saw you are in Los Angeles. I know of a vet in Pasadena with a vet-chiro, acupuncturist and full rehabilitation services (hydrotherapy, laser, etc.):
Rose City Veterinary Hospital - Veterinarian In Pasadena, CA USA :: Rehabilitation

I'm sure there are others, but I took my dog to this one years ago when I lived there for a second opinion when he was young and going through pano--I was very impressed that this vet came up with a supplement regimen to knock out the inflammation and pain without carprofen.

Actually i just talked to my son who will cover for me at work. We have a chiro appt Tuesday. Please keep fingers crossed for us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
We have a chiro appt Tuesday. Please keep fingers crossed for us

I sure will and hope you doggie can be helped without surgery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,318 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
We have a chiro appt Tuesday. Please keep fingers crossed for us

I sure will and hope you doggie can be helped without surgery.
Thank You Thank You for all your help
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top