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I have a kennel license. So I got a letter about the new law, from the Department of Agriculture. I knew about it, the new law. But now they want me to fill out a survey.

At this point it is for high volume breeders and I am not affected by it, until they change the numbers. But at this point it is whelping 9 litters and selling 60 puppies or adult dogs.

Anyhow, it looks like they are sending letters, requiring surveys from everyone with a kennel license in Ohio. It is funny how we voluntarily declare our business to the government, and no one says boo about it.

And I wonder what things people will do to stay below the magic 60 number, euthanize puppies over 59, or maybe sell some with papers and sell to those who do not care about papers under the table so to speak. Or give them away with the purchase of the great $1500 crate.
 

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As an OH resident I'm very disappointed to hear this. As much as I resent people breeding to make a quick buck, I feel it is the individual's, and not the gov'ts, place to prevent it.


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Are they trying to control puppy mills? The Amish?

The magic number is scary, as you point out.

Legislators are notorious for poor legal drafting. Uninformed :(


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As an OH resident I'm very disappointed to hear this. As much as I resent people breeding to make a quick buck, I feel it is the individual's, and not the gov'ts, place to prevent it.


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I agree to a point. I feel however something has to be done to controL the mass production of puppys in this state/country. Especially with our beloved breed!!!
 

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I think it's great that they are trying to take action to regulate millers. 60 puppies a year is a lot. If an average litter is 7 or 9 pups, that is about 7 litters. That's a lot of litters.

Your perspective might change if you spent a lot of time inside Ohio dog pounds...
 

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I think it's great that they are trying to take action to regulate millers. 60 puppies a year is a lot. If an average litter is 7 or 9 pups, that is about 7 litters. That's a lot of litters.

Your perspective might change if you spent a lot of time inside Ohio dog pounds...
Right on.
 

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I agree to a point. I feel however something has to be done to controL the mass production of puppys in this state/country. Especially with our beloved breed!!!
Its this kind of thinking that actually comes down to the real moral problem... to the very foundation of our great country and all of her great states. SOMETHING has to be done... SOMETHING (and people will take just about anything even if its just a bandaid they believe will hold the problem at bay just a little bit longer). Its not you and me and everyone else making the right choice and spending our weekends picketing those Amish farmers we know are puppy mills, no... we have to have a law that controls everyone. Cant control just the bad because then that would be profiling or prejudiced and our great nation doesnt work like that, so everyone gets to be punished because for a small few (which I will add cause the biggest problem). It isnt right.

I am not attacking you personally, please dont take it that way as it isnt intended for only you. A great MANY people say these things and its just wrong. And I feel everyone should know it.

Personal morality is what controls people not laws. Laws do not protect the innocent they protect the guilty.
 

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So you are an anarchist then? :crazy:

Many of us who support this type of legislation have spent a lot of time going into shelters and seeing the end result of those puppy mills. Puppy mills are big business. There is not a lot of morality going around in big business.

Off to walk my belgian malinois who was dumped out in the country in Indiana, right next to Cincinnati...the guy who found him didn't take him to the shelter because he knew Rafi would be euthanized (because he was in very bad shape after living on his own).
 

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So you are an anarchist then? :crazy:

Many of us who support this type of legislation have spent a lot of time going into shelters and seeing the end result of those puppy mills. Puppy mills are big business. There is not a lot of morality going around in big business.
No its not an anarchist, laws do have a place. And I will be honest the problem we currently have is way bigger than I can even think about. However they are soon enough going to realize that the magic number of 60 is just to high and then it becomes 1 and then it becomes none and they zone the breeds and only people with special 180$ annual cards can have any breeds taller than 12 inches (I think on the height I could be wrong) (thats China in case you wonder) MONEY is what it comes down to. They will pay fines and fees etc etc. These governments... not the ones that used to be but the current governments, the way they are run now, they arent actually going to do anything to people who breed more. There will be a fee or extra charge, in fact they will hope that people do this so the state gets more money. Its a new cash cow. People use the law because they really want it to work. Heck I really want this law to work, but its not going to stop anyone who doesnt want to be stopped I am sorry to say.

Its horrible I know it is. But its also the truth.
 

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I think 60 dogs is too low for a puppy mill, if that was supposed to be the target. I was just asking. Carmen?


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to a puppy mill, it is just the cost of doing business. They will write off any extra fees, licenses or upgrades off on their taxes and go on. It won't drop the number of puppy mill dogs produced.
So then the number will drop. Eventually it will get to a number that affects even the hobby breeders. They CAN'T write off the expense on their taxes so they might have to stop breeding. (you can only write off expenses if you make a certain amount of profit. The occasional litter isn't going to qualify you to a tax write off, it's considered a hobby). So who will be left breeding dogs in OH? Yup, the puppy mills. Instead of stopping them, you just removed all of the competition.
 

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I think anyone breeding 9 litters a year and having 60+ puppies SHOULD be regulated.
 

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As much as I abhor puppy mills, I find this law very disturbing. It's the camel's nose under the tent. Instead of enforcing laws that are currently on the books and prosecuting the violators to the fullest extent, we make more laws. We hear about how puppy mill bitches are kept in horrible conditions, then why don't animal cruelty laws apply? Further, the only people that these laws will affect are those that are already responsible breeders and already follow the law. Those that don't care about the welfare of the animal and only want to make money will find a way around the law.

We see this all the time with government regulation. Start out with a law that a majority of the people agree to, then slowly tweak the law until you fully regulate and possibly ban the item (which was the original goal). In two years it could be decided that the magic number is 55, then 50, eventually it gets to a point where even Selzer is violating the law. I'm 100% in favor of finding a way to stop puppy mills, but more over-broad regulations are not the answer.
 

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Just a bit of info on Ohio's Department of Agriculture. My friend runs a small farm and he got a call from them asking if their board of trustees could tour his farm. He said sure but why are you doing the tour? There answer was "Most of our board members and trustees dont know much about farming. So we want to take them around to some farms and show them what its about."
 

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Just a bit of info on Ohio's Department of Agriculture. My friend runs a small farm and he got a call from them asking if their board of trustees could tour his farm. He said sure but why are you doing the tour? There answer was "Most of our board members and trustees dont know much about farming. So we want to take them around to some farms and show them what its about."
OMG only in Ohio would a person who cant tell corn from wheat or a pig from a cow be on the ag board.
 

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OMG only in Ohio would a person who cant tell corn from wheat or a pig from a cow be on the ag board.
I doubt it is that unusual. I would bet that the majority are bureaucrats, not ag people. Which makes it even more concerning when they are making laws and decisions about things of which they have no knowledge or experience.
 

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to a puppy mill, it is just the cost of doing business. They will write off any extra fees, licenses or upgrades off on their taxes and go on. It won't drop the number of puppy mill dogs produced.
So then the number will drop. Eventually it will get to a number that affects even the hobby breeders. They CAN'T write off the expense on their taxes so they might have to stop breeding. (you can only write off expenses if you make a certain amount of profit. The occasional litter isn't going to qualify you to a tax write off, it's considered a hobby). So who will be left breeding dogs in OH? Yup, the puppy mills. Instead of stopping them, you just removed all of the competition.
Got to agree w/ this. I fear that a breeder Im researching may not be around by the time I'm ready for my next pup. Selzer I understand your point re voluntarily going through registering and obtaining a kenel license. I watch alot of Ohio breeders at the local AKC show these folks arent in it for the money and meeting all the dogs not just GSDs you see that the money is going back into the dogs.Not saying there arent bad breeders here but I think the legislation will greatly reduce the ability to find a breeder close to home who you can develop a working relationship w/ . That is incredibly scary. Do I want puppy mills stopped? Good Lord yes but the way to start, as stated by someone else, is enforce the rules we all ready have on the books. BTW I have three rescues so I do understand the concept of homeless dogs.
 

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I doubt it is that unusual. I would bet that the majority are bureaucrats, not ag people. Which makes it even more concerning when they are making laws and decisions about things of which they have no knowledge or experience.
Chris I spoent my early childhood on dairy farm and im the first generation to not be a farmer.I remember my grandparents and my Dad talking about changing state regulations andf how it affected their ability to continue farming. I find that many states due to the political favors or the spoils of war system use cabinet positions and board positions to reward businesses and other folks. Its that way in every state I realize. My problem is in agriculture the subject or work is the way the world is fed. The people who make the regs and draft the laws that our illlustrious legislators present are the folks on the board who unfortunately turn to those who draft rules or who write proposals that benefit their business or their ideology rather then doing what is best ,effective and safe. Perhaps if farmers were mixed w/ somer professionals who understand agriculture you might actually achieve some parity between protecting the earth and living creatures and the business of feeding and providing animals for the public.
 

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Personal morality is what controls people not laws. Laws do not protect the innocent they protect the guilty.
Well said! People with NO morals will never stop breaking the law, especially when money is envolved, where as the law abiding citizen will be the one who follows the law to a T to make sure they are in compliance.
 

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I think it's great that they are trying to take action to regulate millers. 60 puppies a year is a lot. If an average litter is 7 or 9 pups, that is about 7 litters. That's a lot of litters.

Your perspective might change if you spent a lot of time inside Ohio dog pounds...
Ditto:)

I think anyone breeding 9 litters a year and having 60+ puppies SHOULD be regulated.
Ditto, again :)

More about the law in question...


“The new law requires the licensure and annual inspection of high volume breeders that sell 60 dogs or produce at least nine litters in a single calendar year. The law also creates a Commercial Dog Breeding Advisory Board to assist the director of the Ohio Department of Agriculture in developing standards, including rules on housing, nutrition, exercise, waste management, grooming, whelping and other general care standards."

"Additionally, the law prohibits anyone convicted of animal cruelty in the last 20 years from obtaining a license – a provision designed to stop the influx into Ohio of puppy mill operators who have been forced to close their operations in other states due to animal cruelty charges."

“For too many years, the state of Ohio has been known as a haven for low-quality, high-volume breeders that we call ‘puppy mills.’ This is kind of careless treatment of animals is not a reputation that should be attached to our state,” said Ohio Sen. Jim Hughes, R-Columbus. “This legislation has been in the works for nearly a decade and I am proud of the interested parties for their willingness to work together and am grateful to my colleagues in the legislature for taking the final steps to bring this new law to fruition.”

"Ohio is home to 174 federally-licensed dog breeders and brokers – fifth most in the nation – and to at least another 1,000 additional high volume dog breeders, all of whom will be subject to licensure and inspection under the new state law."

"Puppy mills are large-scale commercial dog breeding operations that mass-produce puppies for sale through pet stores, over the Internet and directly to the public. Focused solely on making a profit, these facilities keep dogs in crowded, filthy conditions where they receive little or no socialization, affection or exercise. Breeding dogs are forced to live their entire lives in small cages with no opportunity for exercise or social contact."

Source: Excerpted from article titled, "The HSUS Applauds Ohio Governor and Lawmakers for Passing Law to Crack Down on Puppy Mills: New law provides protection for dogs in one of the country’s top ten puppy producing states"
 
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