I was commenting specifically about online courses.Ha no. Juan and myself is we. We do 5 days worth of handler sessions for people going home with dogs that have trained for a month on their pet behaviors and people often still struggle with very easy mechanics related to asking for and maintaining those commands even when it is broken down to its simplest form.
Learning how to put those behaviors on a dog is way way harder than maintaining it.
Well, its tougher to point the finger that way when you have a club and your working with people trying to go from nothing to titles. 4 wks of concept, go have fun makes that a lot easier.It says more about the handler than ME tbh
I know tons of handlers that work with really good training directors or decoys that have crap results because they don't put what they're being taught into action with the necessary stick toitness or consistency. This is less a reflection of the people they work with and more on the handler.
Thank You! Now I understand what my issue with him was. ANd apparently it was simple not my world! So now I can do what I always have done ... listen and share his lectures that I find applicable and stop trying to get on his case.Michael Ellis doesn't train dogs. He trains trainers. To complete his coursework you'll be spending in the neighborhood of 20k plus whatever it takes to get you to California and stay for a few weeks.
Good experience? Sure.
OLK9 will cost you closer to 2k and will train your dog for you and teach you how to handle him.
Methodology wise with w collar they don't differ that much. Michael Ellis is much more into lure and shaping behaviors and lots of reward repetition before layering in prong and e collar pressure. I believe off leash is mostly leash and e collar pressure from the get go. They are trying to accomplish two different things though. Michael Ellis style training is for sport dogs and trying to get flashy behavior and OLK9 is just about training and getting control on a pet dog. There is a vast difference.
I have my pet commands that were trained with pressure for no or very little reward. They are performed calmly and without expectation of reward. The dogs don't get all excited rigid and wait to explode into whatever happens next. I don't like that in my everyday pet commands.
The sport commands were trained with pressure and varying degrees of reward and they carry the expectation and energy of that with the behavior. They don't get used in everyday life with the dog though.
So really you have to ask yourself two major questions.
Do you want to learn to become a trainer and have this be your learning dog?
Or do you just want your dog to be trained and know how to get the behavior out of him under someone else's framework?
Olk9 is definitely cheaper and faster.
The Michael Ellis thing would be a journey and costly one at that but in the end you'd learn a lot.
Lol, yeah. Ok.It's not about fun. It's about being super serious and putting more pressure on your dog than overbearing parents with unrealistic expectations do on their kids.
This is more of what I'm talking about. More the business model vs a club setting. The difference between training with someone through everything that comes up compared to an expensive 2 weeks that gives an impression of being something that it isn't. Then its pretty easy to be given credit for success with deniability built in for failure.People go home lighter in the wallet and on their own.Yeah people have to be careful when they watch Michael Ellis videos on YouTube or beginning level DVDs because the luring and shaping phase of things is a very very very early part of the process that gives way to pressure and corrections to finally finish the behavior. If you haven't paid for finishing series DVDs you can't claim to fully understand anything. You've only seen the start not the finish.
What's easily available on YouTube is the least objectionable part of the process. It's part of a marketing strategy.
What Michael Ellis does is not unique to dog training. Tons of people lure and shape and layer pressure in the same way. There is nothing special about what he does except for the fact he is intelligent and can speak clearly and fluently and break down the science behind it in a way new people can understand.