German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,490 Posts
I have a very high opinion of Michael Ellis, but if you want to work with him directly you will have to take your dog and go to California. I am not too sure he even travels for seminars anymore, but I may be wrong about that.

The other guy, I don't know...slick website. Seems pretty into using e collars. I like E Collars but I would not let just anybody hold a remote for one of my dogs. In fact I would not let most people near the remote for my dogs.

This is my impression of Ellis: he really gets operant conditioning, he isn't into any faulty dominance theory. He knows what can go wrong with aversive tools and how to prevent that. He is awesome at motivating a dog to want to work and teaching behaviors in smaller pieces so the dog and person can get it and be successful. You'dd always get more out of a super motivated dog. I am sure there is a lot more to say about both of them but probably others will chime in soon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,920 Posts
Michael Ellis doesn't train dogs. He trains trainers. To complete his coursework you'll be spending in the neighborhood of 20k plus whatever it takes to get you to California and stay for a few weeks.

Good experience? Sure.

OLK9 will cost you closer to 2k and will train your dog for you and teach you how to handle him.

Big difference.

Methodology wise with w collar they don't differ that much. Michael Ellis is much more into lure and shaping behaviors and lots of reward repetition before layering in prong and e collar pressure. I believe off leash is mostly leash and e collar pressure from the get go. They are trying to accomplish two different things though. Michael Ellis style training is for sport dogs and trying to get flashy behavior and OLK9 is just about training and getting control on a pet dog. There is a vast difference.

I have my pet commands that were trained with pressure for no or very little reward. They are performed calmly and without expectation of reward. The dogs don't get all excited rigid and wait to explode into whatever happens next. I don't like that in my everyday pet commands.

The sport commands were trained with pressure and varying degrees of reward and they carry the expectation and energy of that with the behavior. They don't get used in everyday life with the dog though.

So really you have to ask yourself two major questions.

Do you want to learn to become a trainer and have this be your learning dog?

Or do you just want your dog to be trained and know how to get the behavior out of him under someone else's framework?

Olk9 is definitely cheaper and faster.

The Michael Ellis thing would be a journey and costly one at that but in the end you'd learn a lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,595 Posts
I'm guessing for what you want, the ME school isn't exactly for you. Unless there's something I don't know about, its set up as courses with the idea of you becoming a trainer. Its not really for you to just take your dog and train him. I don't know the lady in Marin with the Off Leash business, but that's probably more what your looking for. You'd have to contact her and see.

Experience is what matters in dog training Milliegsd. The local franchisee may be a great trainer, or just someone who took a correspondence course. I like something verifiable, so I tend to prefer trainers with some amount of background in something formal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,254 Posts
If you are thinking about ME - you could always try his business partner, Lisa Maze, who does more pet training. But I think I saw she was out of town right now (or leaving) so you may not get a fast response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts
Thanks for verifying that Steve, the trainer in my area has a reputable background but I was curious since it seems like a big franchise if that makes it a bad thing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,490 Posts
Re:

Michael Ellis school...it would not necessarily cost 20k. It is nearly that to do the immersion program but you can take individual courses for a lot less, and take whatever mostly applies to what you want to do with your dog.

The DVDs I have seen were very good.

I know Ellis trains sport dogs but my experience has been that pet dogs perform their little pet dog things much better with motivation like he teaches it.

He also has an interactive course on Leerburg for 1500 which includes DVDs where you submit videos of yourself with your dog for his critique.

I like his philosophy, I like how he applies aversives. You do not have to be or want to be a dog trainer to attend his school. Says so right in the FAQs :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,490 Posts
Yeah none of it is cheap. The interactice course is many months long so that is one thing. I know of another known name offering "train the trainer" for WAY more than what ME charges. Actually I can think of two
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,490 Posts
To be fair I was kinda playing Devil's advocate about ME school. If this person just wants a reasonably behaved pet then going all the way there is probably not at all what they are looking for.

Although I think most pet owners could learn something from his dvds.

Steve Strom, open a dog trainer school and retire!! Apparently it is lucrative
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,202 Posts
To be fair I was kinda playing Devil's advocate about ME school. If this person just wants a reasonably behaved pet then going all the way there is probably not at all what they are looking for.

Although I think most pet owners could learn something from his dvds.

Steve Strom, open a dog trainer school and retire!! Apparently it is lucrative
+1 :thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
505 Posts
Re:

Michael Ellis school...it would not necessarily cost 20k. It is nearly that to do the immersion program but you can take individual courses for a lot less, and take whatever mostly applies to what you want to do with your dog.

The DVDs I have seen were very good.

I know Ellis trains sport dogs but my experience has been that pet dogs perform their little pet dog things much better with motivation like he teaches it.

He also has an interactive course on Leerburg for 1500 which includes DVDs where you submit videos of yourself with your dog for his critique.

I like his philosophy, I like how he applies aversives. You do not have to be or want to be a dog trainer to attend his school. Says so right in the FAQs :)
I have me a little pet dog, and yes, I want him working in 'drive' whenever I can. I DREAM of attending ME's school, and of course, that's all it would ever be.
I wish he would cram all his 'pet dog friendly' wisdom into one dvd, in the meantime, I glean what I can from the free-stuff.

Does he have referrals for like-minded/ or graduated trainers?

I love his philosophy on dog training (and I watched the entire 1 hour on that).

But yes, if your idea of a pet dog is a dog that obeys with a sparkle in his eye, plays a mean game of tug, and wants to be engaged with you in a real and physical way, someone who trains like ME is a good option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,920 Posts
1500 dollars for an online interactive course??? Holy thats more then I pay for an entire year of actual training. Sorry, that just sounds crazy to me.
It isn't crazy. A good decoy for sport work will cost you between 50-150 dollars per day per dog. Most board and train programs will be 1000-3000 for month long programs. I'd say most people who get those programs may not benefit that much without 1 on 1 coaching. DVDs books and whatever are fine but there is no substitute for coaching and repetition. Take it from me we make it about as simple as it can be broken down for people on an already trained dog and most people still struggle. Trying to learn to train watching a DVD will not be easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,490 Posts
Not for nothing but once you get your toes in the water and see what your dog can do and what you can get your dog to do....you might be inspired to go and compete at something when you weren't previously planning on it.

I think everyone agrees that GSDS do better with mental adequate mental stimulation, exercise and a "job" of some sort. Schutzhund isn't for everybody but I am having fun doing Rally with mine, even my old lady.

We are also learning about and training tracking and dock diving hoping to compete or title at those too.

I was not planning on doing ANY of that with my young dog, but when you see them catching on and turning on and so happy, it is infectious. These days I am literally looking at our schedule to be sure he is getting enough time off.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top