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Discussion Starter #1
I purchased my female GSD in June of 2010 as a show/breeding prospect. Once she reached two years old I had her hips and elbows check via OFA. Well I was surprised to find out the diagnosis was moderate hip dysplaysia. Obviously she will not be bred and I will be getting her fixed ASAP.

I paid $2500 for this dog. The breeder said she did not do contracts and that she was an open book and that her reputation spoke for itself. I feel I did not get the dog I was originally promised. She is now pet grade at best. I asked the breeder for a refund and have not heard back. What is reasonable in this situation? I just wanted to add that this dog was shipped to me with parvo. The breeder did pay for all treatment. I feel that the moderate hip dyspaysia warrants a full refund or a substantial one. Just a side note, I was recently contacted by the owner of one of the litter mates who also received the dog with parvo. She told me she received a 100% refund. As of today the breeder has been non-responsive. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

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You don't have a contract so you don't have a leg to stand on. Even with a contract, most breeders will only replace the dog if you return the one you have knowing that most people won't give up their dog.

No contract and you recieved a parvo puppy does speak for itself....
 

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I'm sorry to hear about the diagnoses. Honestly those results could happen to any GSD...even ones with parents with excellent hip & elbow, there's absolutely no guarantee.

Without a contract, there's nothing really than can be done.

For the record your girl can live a normal & healthy life with moderate dysplaysia.

What were your initial plans for her?
 

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Thanks for the response Elaine. I guess I got suckered. I''m just too trusting. I guess all I can do is leave feedback about this breeder for others to see. Maybe it will help others make a more educated decision.
 

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Hi Courtney,

I planned to breed her but will now be getting her fixed. She is a loving dog and my best friend. I'm just hopeful she has a few good years before the disease progresses.
 

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I don't know if I'd call it suckered. HD is a polygenic disorder so even if the breeder had generations of good hips there's no guarantee. It's not necessarily a case of the breeder knowingly producing and selling unhealthy animals. Your dog's results will be published in the OFA database, so the results speak for themselves. Without a contract, I'm not sure what else can be expected.

The disease may never progress. Many HD dogs live long, relatively symptom-free lives. You'll want to keep her thin, get her on good joint supplements, and keep her active so that her rear muscles stay strong but avoid activities with a lot of jumping and pounding on those joints. Swimming is awesome.
 

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I guess there is a reason she doesn't have contracts. She has numerous litters a year. She is obviously all about quantity and not quality. What are the odds I get a dog with parvo and then is diagnosed with moderate hip dysplaysia? I feel like such a fool.
 

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How long as it been since you contacted the breeder? If it hasn't been too long, they may just be busy. THey paid the parvo vet bills so they may do something. Replacement often means returning the HD dog, or to keep the HD dog a 50% discount on another puppy.
 

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I guess there is a reason she doesn't have contracts. She has numerous litters a year. She is obviously all about quantity and not quality. What are the odds I get a dog with parvo and then is diagnosed with moderate hip dysplaysia? I feel like such a fool.
To be honest the parvo thing makes me more nervous than the HD thing, but I don't know what breeder we're talking about so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. If there were hesitations about the quality of the dogs and how many are produced that should be brought into the open up front before any money/dogs changes hands.

A lot of breeders don't have contracts, and a lot of people (myself included) don't care about them, even if they are offered. The contract means nothing; it's the genetics that matter.
 

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Any breeder can get Parvo at their house/facility. If puppy buyers came to see a litter, they could track it in. Vet visits for health certs before sending the litter off to new homes can easily get puppies sick.
And if it was only a few days before you got the puppy, the breeder would not have known that the puppies were infected.
Nothing the op has yet posted indicates a "bad" breeder or breeding program. Things happen. Give the breeder a chance to respond.... Then hang them out to dry if warranted. JMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I contacted the breeder a week ago via email. I'm sure she got the message. She runs a full time operation. The owner of a litter mate of my dog was refunded 100% for just the parvo plus she got to keep the dog. Wouldn't parvo and moderate hip dysplaysia justify a refund in this situation? She obviously doesn't have to but I would give a refund. She has multiple litters from eleven different dams. If she is producing such quality pups I would think this would be just a cost of doing business to save her impeccable reputation.
 

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Iceberg I think I know who this person is, as I think I know who owns the littermate you speak of...

Pretend you are a puppy buyer in an email and you will receive an e-mail back in less than 10 minutes.. I can promise you that. I just tried..
 

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How much did the breeder already pay in parvo treatment?

In my area depending on how long the puppy was kept at the vet sometimes a few days sometimes as much as a week I wouldn't be surprised if the treatment could go as high as $2000-$3000. I know some places are much cheaper with regard to vet costs. I would think a breeder would not give more back to a buyer with regards to a refund over the total cost of the puppy.
 

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Good point Clyde. I am sorry your dog has a serious problem. Without a contract and warranty on hip scores, I think you are out of luck. But, she may surprise you and respond with what she is willing to do for you.

Responding to a first time puppy buyer does not really take any thought, I mean serious thought. The breeder may be trying to decide whether or not she should send you a refund, a partial refund, or offer you another dog and out of which litter. She may be wanting to see the x-rays, or the diagnosis. I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt here.

Parvo is scary, because we have our adults vaccinated and hope that our puppies remain under the protection of the dam until we can get them vaccinated. I am not saying it can't happen, but I think that certain situations make it much more likely.

But the fact that she paid for the dogs to be treated for the parvo give me a little hope for you. She may not be as bad as all that. But if she paid $700 for the parvo, and now the dog has hip dysplasia, I am thinking she might not be too keen on giving a full refund, she may offer half price on another puppy, and if she does, I think that is pretty fair, only if she does not require the dog back.

As for the dog you have, hip dysplasia is not a death sentence. With or without hip dysplasia dogs can have trouble in their senior years. There are operations that can help. If the dog does not show signs of problems, she may never have any serious signs of problems until her latter years, and they can be improved by proper weight, light exercise, and supplementing, and possbily pain management down the road.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi Selzer,

The breeder informed me that the dogs contacted the parvo when she was transporting them from one state to another. She said she pulled off the road to let them have a potty break. I don't know if it was a rest area or public park but those are the last places you would want a seven week old litter to be. I have never been able to find out what happened to the other litter mates. There were a originally 6 pups in the litter. I only know about two of them.

As far as my girl goes my vet told me to exercise her as you said (leash walking with inclines where possible, and swimming) and minimize any jumping. I plan to give her some supplements as well to help minimize any problems. I have been feeding her high quality dry dog food from day one. At least that is what I think. I have been feeding her Taste of the Wild.
 

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Hi Selzer,

The breeder informed me that the dogs contacted the parvo when she was transporting them from one state to another. She said she pulled off the road to let them have a potty break. I don't know if it was a rest area or public park but those are the last places you would want a seven week old litter to be. I have never been able to find out what happened to the other litter mates. There were a originally 6 pups in the litter. I only know about two of them.

As far as my girl goes my vet told me to exercise her as you said (leash walking with inclines where possible, and swimming) and minimize any jumping. I plan to give her some supplements as well to help minimize any problems. I have been feeding her high quality dry dog food from day one. At least that is what I think. I have been feeding her Taste of the Wild.
Hip dysplasia is genetic, if your dog does not have a propensity toward bad hips then you don't create bad hips. However, there is an environmental component that can cause issues.

You sound like you are doing a great job with your dog. However, most of the Taste of the Wild formulas are too high on calcium. An overage of calcium can build up and leave calcium deposits in the joints. Usually Calcium of 1.1 is enough, and the phosphorus needs to be the proper ratio with the calcium.

Personally, I would get your dog off Taste of the Wild, and go to something with less calcium, or maybe check out their puppy formulas maybe one of them has better calcium levels. I am not saying you caused this, but continued calcium can actually cause problems down the line.

There are a lot of people who supplement for good hips. Nupro or some such stuff, I do not know what is the best out there. I have heard that vitamin C can be very good for this.

I would definitely go with what your vet says about swimming and walking. Keeping her fit (not overweight) and moderate exercise will help her be as comfortable as possible for as long as possible. In the mean time, and hopefully, you will not need to, but check out the different types of hip surgeries there are. I think FHO is Full hip replacement, then there is a surgery where they go in and clean out the joint. There is some other surgery, and then there is one where they cut the tendens that push the hip into the socket. This is least invasive and the dogs can still run and everything afterwards. But removing the pressure, removes the pain. But different surgeries are indicated for different issues. Knowing about them will help you be your dog's best advocate.

Here's hoping with diet and exercise, your girl will not need any surgery.

Good luck, and I am sorry you are going through this.
 
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