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Discussion Starter #1
I think I would like to teach the old gal nosework this winter. There aren't any classes around here so I was hoping someone could offer opinions on good videos or books? She already knows an indoor/outdoor "find it" game with her ball which is her all time favorite thing to do...

Also considering the Fenzi class?

Saw Dave Kroyer has NW videos.

Any opinions appreciated.
 

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I haven't seen it, but Halo and I make a brief appearance in the first of the Andrew Ramsey series of nosework DVDs. :)
 

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There is the Parker videos"how one dog got started in nose works" put out by the national association of scent work. Many you tube videos of the above mentioned and Mike Suttle. I would suggest going to a upcoming nosework clinic/workshop in your area-tons of information. It is worth a bit of travel. It always help to have someone critique what you are doing as most often handler error- the dog knows quickly what to do. In the clinics/workshop you can bring your dog to be part of the clinic/workshop if you choose or just watch. It really is so much fun I don't think I can ever get bored doing this.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There is a clinic coming up and I had thought of going..., but it is very near to a seminar I am already signed up for and it may be too much. I will look into it again...
 

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One more question....I was reading reviews of the Ramsey NW video and it sounded like not a 1 person job? Must you have 2 ppl? This being to train a dog who knows her markers, knows a "search" cue and has tons of ball and food drive.

I am always pestering my husband to do something it seems like...he will not be thrilled with another "hey honey will you help me train the dog to do xyz lol"
 

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The only time you need a second person is when you do blind hides and that is later on which does not require much effort. I drag the kids to Home Depot when we go so they record and do perhaps a blind hide if I like the way things are going. Recording what goes on does help you see the mistakes you make. The last time we went to Home Depot Max was struggling but he did find all the hides but was not as strong being in oder -I felt. I heard no wind sucking through the nose like usual or crouching on the ground - he often does this. . I was a little puzzled as to why I checked the tin and had found out that the tin the cotton swab was in had no scented cotton swab in it. Duh? The tin had a smell not detectable to us. Detectable to Max from the prior qtip that was in it I felt awful but he did incredibly well and found every hide I was proud. We did go back to another Home Depot next day with our qtip in the tin and noticed how strong he was in odor then previously. By son just being himself served also served as a great distraction-lol. Later on when training for distractions Home Depot is a great place to go later in to train for distractions- large equipment buzzing around loud banging sounds people walking by many bins and places to hide the scent in. Petco is another great place - little critter, dogs, food smells
Etc.
 

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IME, working solo while doing imprinting requires you to routinely back tie the dog, or to have a solid down that the dog will not break when excited. When I work a dog solo, I try to keep the energy up and not squash it by demanding too much OB. Here is a video I shot of Fama doing box drills right after I got her back. We were both a little rusty LOL. It gives you an idea of the process.

I will be shooting video of the next nosework dog I imprint and do initial training on. I will share that here. Don't have a new nosework client currently, so I don't know when that may be. In the middle of purchasing a restaurant, so I don't have much dog time right now.

 

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Is this your imprinting stage? Or has she imprinted on the scent already? She offered a final response, is that just natural for her now? Or did you train that with NW? Is it the same one she used when doing military stuff?

Right now, I am still in the "these scents are awesome" phase of training. I move them about a room and he searches and finds it. Doing great, and is naturally putting his nose right on the scent. I am rewarding that behavior, but he is starting to offer a down. I am letting him, not praising or asking for it.

Since I am using food at this stage, I am using a marker word and then stepping in to reward. He looks over at me as I say "yes" then shoves his nose back into the scent and starts downing. Right now it's just his front end. I give him his treat right at the scent. Because I love that he naturally offering this behavior.
 

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2 questions:

1 the dog needs to stay in sight?

2 could she just go into a wire crate for a second?


She actually ties fine...and could probably hold a down stay for this. But in case I am wrong?

I can already tell you though, she will be screaming at me the whole time until she is released.....sigh.... maybe I shouldnt teach her nosework lol. She does rally without screaming at me
 

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When I practice noseworks at the house I let him outside while I'm hiding the source/find inside. After he finds the find/source I reward him with "good" and food at source. I then bring him outside and toss the ball which he comes back and waits pumped up for the next round. If we do this outside I just do the opposite and he waits inside. So he can't see where I'm hiding the scent. He is all pumped up when I let him in. I also practicing him staying in another room at a stay. You can crate him to. In class the instructor hides the source and we are all calmly waiting. Dogs do not or never see where hides /finds/source are placed. If I'm at out somewhere myself I can quickly hide a scent walking down an aisle as we pass by. They sell the tins with the holes that have magnets attached - to easily place the qtips with scented oils. When it comes time to search scented oil such as birch it is paired with food first and with food being placed on top of the tin. Eventually the food is removed. It is a process. You can get those tins on many nosework supply websites. The Parker video I mentioned does show you in detail how to start and make sure when you use boxes to place food in only the boxes you mark food as they do Leave a residue that can make it unclear for your dog and you. It also give you many nose work definitions and some rules to the sport.
 

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Is this your imprinting stage? Or has she imprinted on the scent already? She offered a final response, is that just natural for her now? Or did you train that with NW? Is it the same one she used when doing military stuff?

Right now, I am still in the "these scents are awesome" phase of training. I move them about a room and he searches and finds it. Doing great, and is naturally putting his nose right on the scent. I am rewarding that behavior, but he is starting to offer a down. I am letting him, not praising or asking for it.

Since I am using food at this stage, I am using a marker word and then stepping in to reward. He looks over at me as I say "yes" then shoves his nose back into the scent and starts downing. Right now it's just his front end. I give him his treat right at the scent. Because I love that he naturally offering this behavior.
I previously paired known odors with the nosework odors for imprinting. The sit / down with focus on the hide is previously trained behavior from military detection. I know the trainer that trained her, and also trained dogs in that same system, and it is just a matter of showing the dog how to get the reward. In the beginning stages, a ball is dropped in the box while the dog is watching. When the dog runs up to the box to find the ball, you ask for a sit, helping physically if needed, and when the dog's butt hits the ground, it is rewarded. You have to be careful in the beginning to never reward the dog out of position, but after a couple weeks of drills, they get pretty solid on the indication.

If you have a trained behavior you want to add as an indicator, now is a fine time to ask for it before the reward.

Dog freezes on odor, DOWN, immediate reward after compliance. Add duration and distraction incrementally after you are getting a solid indication. Fama was trained with a sit, but added a down to her repertoire when learning buried hides. I just continued to reward that indication as well as a sit, which depends on the height of the hide.

There is no way that I differentiate nosework from bomb, narc or any odor detection work other than the target odors. I train them all the same. SD blood sugar indication I do train differently, but only in later stages. It is an active response, so I train a paw on the handler or spin as a response. I begin that training in boxes, but train the spin or paw the box instead of sit, then transfer that to the handler.
 

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2 questions:

1 the dog needs to stay in sight?

2 could she just go into a wire crate for a second?


She actually ties fine...and could probably hold a down stay for this. But in case I am wrong?

I can already tell you though, she will be screaming at me the whole time until she is released.....sigh.... maybe I shouldnt teach her nosework lol. She does rally without screaming at me
1) No. the dog could be secluded in another location for whatever time necessary to rearrange hides. I do this when I am working on room searches or outdoor hides when I am solo and have s suitable seclusion area, like a vehicle, building or another room.

2) A crate would certainly suffice. I don't use this during early imprinting though, because I want to keep the dog UP and excited and thinking about the game. Nosework is a timed activity, so I want the dog thinking about the next find right away, not getting into the habit of going into a crate between searches. This would depend greatly on the dog, energy level, work ethic and so on.

If you want her to not scream, you have to show her that the only way she gets what she wants is to be still. You can see in the video that Fama understands that breaking a down will result in consequences. She holds it very calmly until it's time to search. It is just a habit you have to build into the dog. I can't give you concrete methods here because so much of it depends on the dog and how you work with them outside of detection. You never want to correct a lot of dogs on odor, but if you have a clear communication system, you can safely correct the dog, as long as your timing is good and you follow up with reinforcement of the desired behavior.

ETA: Fama used to be a complete nut case when doing detection. It took a lot of time to get her to play by my rules, because I didn't want to diminish her drive in the search. It's a balancing act where you always want to err on the side of caution.
 

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In this video at Home Depot I hid the qtip in a tin (with a magnet) down the aisle quickly while walking with Max not stopping. I then walked down another aisle and returned to the aisle with the hide. video taped on my phone. My son is with me but did this solo. Don't think you need a second person practice while out and about. Max will touch source with his nose and now staying their he did starting licking it which is a new thing?
https://youtu.be/mk7McJPhJ6k
 

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In this video at Home Depot I hid the qtip in a tin (with a magnet) down the aisle quickly while walking with Max not stopping. I then walked down another aisle and returned to the aisle with the hide. video taped on my phone. My son is with me but did this solo. Don't think you need a second person practice while out and about. Max will touch source with his nose and now staying their he did starting licking it which is a new thing?
https://youtu.be/mk7McJPhJ6k
I would suggest having your son video, so you can see yourself and the rest of the dog when reviewing it later.

A not to anyone doing detection of any kind. Blind hides are incredibly important. It teaches you to read your dog, instead of anticipating when the dog is in odor. I move to blind hides with a helper ASAP and do my searches this way whenever possible.
 

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In this video at Home Depot I hid the qtip in a tin (with a magnet) down the aisle quickly while walking with Max not stopping. I then walked down another aisle and returned to the aisle with the hide. video taped on my phone. My son is with me but did this solo. Don't think you need a second person practice while out and about. Max will touch source with his nose and now staying their he did starting licking it which is a new thing?
https://youtu.be/mk7McJPhJ6k
I would suggest having your son video, so you can see yourself and the rest of the dog when reviewing it later.

A not to anyone doing detection of any kind. Blind hides are incredibly important. It teaches you to read your dog, instead of anticipating when the dog is in odor. I move to blind hides with a helper ASAP and do my searches this way whenever possible.
Thank you! Yes great advise! And we do need to do more blind hides. Lol with a bribery of treat at Panera bread that was the purpose of my boy there to get a full video - (to see his body language and often he crouches down in odor)since they had off from school but the battery went incredibly low and died??? We did two blind hides was a+. One was in a plastic container behind boxes under a shelf. The other in a some slab of wood with holes. Tough hides- my son enjoys putting Max to the test. Slamdunc mentioned searches in the pitch dark wanting to do that. I admit though I need to do more blind hides to be more comfortble with it. I also admit I would pry out of the helper mostly my kids to confirm the hide was at first as out of my comfort zone. Getting better though.
 
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