it really depends on the age of the dog. but hey you could try and get a herding title on him. maybe use the childeren as the "livestock"? lol j/p.
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The dog is a non-GSD. They do not want herding titles, and there are no herding events in the area without driving a good distance that I know of. Nor would she appreciate advice of teaching it to herd children. 
What is the breed?
Have they started obedience classes with a positive type trainer?
Good that they are doing management by removing the temptation until the dog knows what they are doing/should not be doing!!!!
Also I am not sure how to train the kids-I am sure that parents may have some little tips to make them less appealing.
The dog may be stressed by kids and not a good match for kids-that is something they are going to have to explore. I think it takes a special, stable dog to truly enjoy being around children.
I would do Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) with the dog to try to help it.
I would check out the Yahoo Shyk-9 group.
What I would do, in addition to classes is work on a fun and ironclad leave it command. That usually happens into the classes a little more, after some of the basics.
When I teach leave it I start out using absolutely no value items. Things the dog doesn't care about and can leave with no issues. Then start adding more enticing things as they begin to understand the idea of leaving it, working up to things that are second only in value to the reward of leaving it.
My goal is to have the dog come to me for a leave it command. Did not work today with one of them and all my dogs are going to be doing a two week leave it boot camp! My leave it is not to be questioned! EVER!
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(laughing at my power trip)
I put the dog on a leash in the beginning of the leave it. Leave it is supposed to be a fun, happy thing (unless someone screws it up, Mario...). So dog on leash, kleenex waiting to be shredded is dropped on the floor. We walk past and as their nose goes down, I say-usually in a different tone-I start out high and happy - LEAVE IT and put the higher value treat that I am holding in my right hand down by their head and lure their head up and looking at me. If the dog is struggling I will give the leave it treat (people food) right at the time of the word leave it to mark it-not giving them the chance to make a bad choice. Say good leave it! Working toward over time the dog automatically looking up for the eye contact to get the leave it treat.
This morning we used chicken. My GSD Bella doesn't even look at the leave it items any more-she just comes up in a sit (she decided on the sit on her own) for the treat. The mixes...not so fast and smooth, but they do it (they like to see what the leave it item is-I can hear their little minds saying is it worth it?).
So, in situations where the dog wants to do something I don't want them to do, I can use leave it and they just do-which is very nice. I think it would apply in this situation, and if not, they have something fun to do with the dog, because when they get good at it you can toss a handful of treats in the air, do moving leave its, etc. and watch them work through it.
My Schipperke mix (bred to kill rodents) and Chow mix were tossing a bunny they found and I yelled leave it-they ran to the porch for their leave it treat. So it interrupted some major prey drive!
Good luck!
Have they started obedience classes with a positive type trainer?
Good that they are doing management by removing the temptation until the dog knows what they are doing/should not be doing!!!!
Also I am not sure how to train the kids-I am sure that parents may have some little tips to make them less appealing.
The dog may be stressed by kids and not a good match for kids-that is something they are going to have to explore. I think it takes a special, stable dog to truly enjoy being around children.
I would do Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) with the dog to try to help it.
I would check out the Yahoo Shyk-9 group.
What I would do, in addition to classes is work on a fun and ironclad leave it command. That usually happens into the classes a little more, after some of the basics.
When I teach leave it I start out using absolutely no value items. Things the dog doesn't care about and can leave with no issues. Then start adding more enticing things as they begin to understand the idea of leaving it, working up to things that are second only in value to the reward of leaving it.
My goal is to have the dog come to me for a leave it command. Did not work today with one of them and all my dogs are going to be doing a two week leave it boot camp! My leave it is not to be questioned! EVER!
I put the dog on a leash in the beginning of the leave it. Leave it is supposed to be a fun, happy thing (unless someone screws it up, Mario...). So dog on leash, kleenex waiting to be shredded is dropped on the floor. We walk past and as their nose goes down, I say-usually in a different tone-I start out high and happy - LEAVE IT and put the higher value treat that I am holding in my right hand down by their head and lure their head up and looking at me. If the dog is struggling I will give the leave it treat (people food) right at the time of the word leave it to mark it-not giving them the chance to make a bad choice. Say good leave it! Working toward over time the dog automatically looking up for the eye contact to get the leave it treat.
This morning we used chicken. My GSD Bella doesn't even look at the leave it items any more-she just comes up in a sit (she decided on the sit on her own) for the treat. The mixes...not so fast and smooth, but they do it (they like to see what the leave it item is-I can hear their little minds saying is it worth it?).
So, in situations where the dog wants to do something I don't want them to do, I can use leave it and they just do-which is very nice. I think it would apply in this situation, and if not, they have something fun to do with the dog, because when they get good at it you can toss a handful of treats in the air, do moving leave its, etc. and watch them work through it.
My Schipperke mix (bred to kill rodents) and Chow mix were tossing a bunny they found and I yelled leave it-they ran to the porch for their leave it treat. So it interrupted some major prey drive!
Good luck!
The dog is either a Border Collie or a BC/collie mix.Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANWhat is the breed?
Have they started obedience classes with a positive type trainer?
Good that they are doing management by removing the temptation until the dog knows what they are doing/should not be doing!!!!
Also I am not sure how to train the kids-I am sure that parents may have some little tips to make them less appealing.
The dog may be stressed by kids and not a good match for kids-that is something they are going to have to explore. I think it takes a special, stable dog to truly enjoy being around children.
I would do Nothing in Life is Free (NILIF) with the dog to try to help it.
I would check out the Yahoo Shyk-9 group.
What I would do, in addition to classes is work on a fun and ironclad leave it command. That usually happens into the classes a little more, after some of the basics.
When I teach leave it I start out using absolutely no value items. Things the dog doesn't care about and can leave with no issues. Then start adding more enticing things as they begin to understand the idea of leaving it, working up to things that are second only in value to the reward of leaving it.
My goal is to have the dog come to me for a leave it command. Did not work today with one of them and all my dogs are going to be doing a two week leave it boot camp! My leave it is not to be questioned! EVER!(laughing at my power trip)![]()
I put the dog on a leash in the beginning of the leave it. Leave it is supposed to be a fun, happy thing (unless someone screws it up, Mario...). So dog on leash, kleenex waiting to be shredded is dropped on the floor. We walk past and as their nose goes down, I say-usually in a different tone-I start out high and happy - LEAVE IT and put the higher value treat that I am holding in my right hand down by their head and lure their head up and looking at me. If the dog is struggling I will give the leave it treat (people food) right at the time of the word leave it to mark it-not giving them the chance to make a bad choice. Say good leave it! Working toward over time the dog automatically looking up for the eye contact to get the leave it treat.
So, in situations where the dog wants to do something I don't want them to do, I can use leave it and they just do-which is very nice. I think it would apply in this situation, and if not, they have something fun to do with the dog, because when they get good at it you can toss a handful of treats in the air, do moving leave its, etc. and watch them work through it.
My Schipperke mix (bred to kill rodents) and Chow mix were tossing a bunny they found and I yelled leave it-they ran to the porch for their leave it treat. So it interrupted some major prey drive!
Good luck!
There are NO positive trainers in the area other than myself. The only other class in the area would have this woman hitting her dog witha leash, rolled up newspaper, and an open hand. She has not yet taken classes with me. We decided that she doesn't necessarily need a group class, just private lessons to work on this individual behavior. They report no other disobedient behavior or problems.
The plan(that is apt to change) -We will start out with name recognition and distraction training with the kids a good distance away. I will have the kids inch closer and closer in a calm, relaxed state, diverting their eyes and dropping a cookie, as we continue to work with name recognition and ignoring the kids when she is told to(So sort of like your "leave it", but instead just with her name. If the owner chooses, she may say leave it as well). Once she has a background in learning to pay attention to handler when told, we will heighten the distractions - the kids will be asked to again go a much further distance away, and this time do something with more activity, such as jumping jacks, or just running in small circles(no vocals at this point, just physical movement). I'm hoping for little to no reaction at this point, so that we can call the name, use a "spacial correction" if we must, and praise immensely for no herding/barking/lunging behavior. If there is a huge reaction, the dog will have already been placed on a prong collar incase of this kind of obnoxious reaction. If the dog hits the line, it will get a self correction, and directly after I will use a spacial correction. Get directly in front, back him up until he pays attention to me, and then give him his space back with praise and a cookie for paying attention to me while I continue to block his view. If you cannot praise, you cannot correct. So if ever a correction on the prong has to be issued, I will go back to a short name recognition game with high value rewards and again ask the kids to come in calmly to deliver cookies. She will learn kids are not the bad things that cause her to be disciplined, but her obnoxious behavior. As we work through the steps, I hope to see improvement, and if the owner sees it too we will continue a few more private lessons to hopefully get to the points the kids can be running and screaming a good distance away and the dog not react at all. (However, my advice will still be that this dog is NEVER offleash around that kind of activity in the future.)
Definitely still open to more and new ideas and methods. I like to have many tools up my sleeve. I will also have a squirt bottle with me filled with water. And I do own a Head Halti.
The lesson went GREAT!!
Well, the kids were about 15-20 min late. A misunderstanding in what time the lesson was at between all three of us(the BC owner, me, and the student of mine that brought her kids). But that gave me and the owners more time to talk more about the issues, about how much exercise the dog got, about what else they tried adn exactly what they did... etc. "Della" does get plenty of exercise physically. Running and walking every day. And playing too. Not maybe as much mental though - but she's actually a very calm, sweet, relaxed, and not very spastic.
The dog did not take treats. So from the getgo we were using praise alone.
At first I had the kids visit with the dog, asking them to be very calm and praising and attentive. Gave "Della" the chance to meet the kids and learn they were good ones. She is a very submissive dog. At first I wanted her to become more relaxed around the kids before we started working.
Then I told the kids to go way out and just run in circles. Thats when I started to see Della whine, bark once, and lunge a bit all at the same time. I had her on a pretty short leash, and on the prong collar. She hit the prong, let out a small yelp, and then settled into a sit and looked up at me. I praised her IMMENSELY for giving me her attention, as if she was the most perfect dog in the world - because at that moment she was. She learned her lesson and then gave me her attention. GOOD dog! She whined a second time when I told the kids to up the anty and make some noise along with their movement. The moment she did so I stepped directly in front and invaded her space saying "Ah Ah!!". She stopped, looked at me, and tons and tons of praise. I switched off from the prong and onto her harness. From then on all she needed was a verbal correction(and very very few) as I asked the kids to come closer and closer as they continued to play, run, and yell. She was very attentive towards their movement, but stayed still and did not bark, whine or lunge. She had learned. So I started walking her through their movements and excitement - she in movement rather than just sitting there. This was a bit more difficult for her, but she passed with flying colors. Frequently throughout the entire session I had the kids come up to her calmly to give her attention, praise, and petting. And at the very end took out the tennis ball. The kids played with her and threw the ball back and forth between themselves as they again acted as distractions, yelling and running about. Rewarding her with teh tennis ball from time to time. The lesson DID put some stress onto Della - she was experiencing some new rules she'd never known before - but it is to never break her spirit - and at the end of hte session she had learned kids CAN be good things, not to be scared of just because got some negative reaction from human because of her behavior. Her ears were up, her tail was relaxed, she was playful.
Next step? We're taking her to a baseball game! No more little league games, but we figure the bigger people games would be better to start off with anyway.
I'm happy with how it all went. The owners are happy. The kids enjoyed htemselves and got a treat out of it! It was just a great time.
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The owners were a joy to work with.
Well, the kids were about 15-20 min late. A misunderstanding in what time the lesson was at between all three of us(the BC owner, me, and the student of mine that brought her kids). But that gave me and the owners more time to talk more about the issues, about how much exercise the dog got, about what else they tried adn exactly what they did... etc. "Della" does get plenty of exercise physically. Running and walking every day. And playing too. Not maybe as much mental though - but she's actually a very calm, sweet, relaxed, and not very spastic.
The dog did not take treats. So from the getgo we were using praise alone.
At first I had the kids visit with the dog, asking them to be very calm and praising and attentive. Gave "Della" the chance to meet the kids and learn they were good ones. She is a very submissive dog. At first I wanted her to become more relaxed around the kids before we started working.
Then I told the kids to go way out and just run in circles. Thats when I started to see Della whine, bark once, and lunge a bit all at the same time. I had her on a pretty short leash, and on the prong collar. She hit the prong, let out a small yelp, and then settled into a sit and looked up at me. I praised her IMMENSELY for giving me her attention, as if she was the most perfect dog in the world - because at that moment she was. She learned her lesson and then gave me her attention. GOOD dog! She whined a second time when I told the kids to up the anty and make some noise along with their movement. The moment she did so I stepped directly in front and invaded her space saying "Ah Ah!!". She stopped, looked at me, and tons and tons of praise. I switched off from the prong and onto her harness. From then on all she needed was a verbal correction(and very very few) as I asked the kids to come closer and closer as they continued to play, run, and yell. She was very attentive towards their movement, but stayed still and did not bark, whine or lunge. She had learned. So I started walking her through their movements and excitement - she in movement rather than just sitting there. This was a bit more difficult for her, but she passed with flying colors. Frequently throughout the entire session I had the kids come up to her calmly to give her attention, praise, and petting. And at the very end took out the tennis ball. The kids played with her and threw the ball back and forth between themselves as they again acted as distractions, yelling and running about. Rewarding her with teh tennis ball from time to time. The lesson DID put some stress onto Della - she was experiencing some new rules she'd never known before - but it is to never break her spirit - and at the end of hte session she had learned kids CAN be good things, not to be scared of just because got some negative reaction from human because of her behavior. Her ears were up, her tail was relaxed, she was playful.
Next step? We're taking her to a baseball game! No more little league games, but we figure the bigger people games would be better to start off with anyway.
I'm happy with how it all went. The owners are happy. The kids enjoyed htemselves and got a treat out of it! It was just a great time.
The beautiful sweet girl that did so well!!:
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