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Hi all

I just started being a lot stricter with the whole NILIF training. Hex is 14month old and seems to have forgotten everything he ever learnt, EVERYTHING is a "make me" scenario.
He's the most frustrating dog I have ever owned :(

I have started ignoring him when I first come home, in the morning when I let him out of the Kennel and at night just before dinner when he used to "demand" his belly rub.
I ignore him when he brings me his toys to throw (he loves to play fetch but always on his terms, he won't return all the way or when he does he will try to play tug and not "aus" (which he was able to do just fine a month ago).

It makes me feel so sad to see his expectant look when I come home and he runs to get the frisbee and drops it at my feet :(
I try to wait till he's run off then get a different toy and call him over to play.
I'm not sure if all this is working tho he doesn't like attention all that much anyway and now that I ignore him when he wants attention he pretty much can't be bothered with me at all anymore.

I have a local lady that will help me she is an ex K9 handler so I hope she can give me some tips on how to work with him. (I'mfully expecting that she'll tell me to get rid of him if I want a "sport" dog )
I'm ready to just give up, put him in the backyard and let him be a pet for the next 10 years then it doesn't matter if he has good manners or not.
Sorry for the long ranting post I'm feeling pretty sad atm.
 

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Delgado went through a real butthead stage between 9-10 months, I've always done NILIF but it did have to get hardcore during those few weeks. Honestly it didn't make me feel guilty, I knew that if I gave in while he was misbehaving he would know he could get away with it again and again.

I think all dogs need that reminder every once in a while, my dogs earn priviledges and enjoy them but if they abuse it then it's taken away for a while, sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes a few days.
 

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Wow I can just imagine those looks you're getting from your pup.

I'm not an expert, but when I do NILIF I don't totally ignore Frank in the situations like you're talking about.
Instead Frank has learned he must sit when he comes out of his crate and look at me.
When I come home and he's super excited, I ignore him only till he sits then he gets lots of attention, but he has learned the attention stops if he jumps.
He's always bringing toys to throw, I dont' understand why you would need to get another toy to throw, I use the same toy Frank brings but he must sit in heel position before it's thrown, (now we're working on him staying till the toy hits the ground and I release him).
Each time he must do something for me before he gets what he wants.
The other day I went to feed him and when I looked down he was gone, I turned around and he had run into the other room and laid down in the spot, I'd been putting him in till I released him to eat. All without me telling him so when I called him to eat I threw in a down command when he was half way to me. he did it and I released him to eat.
To me NILIF is about taking what the dog is wanting and giving them something they must do before they get what they want.
I'm not sure Frank would get anything out of just being ignored except to eventually just to give up trying to get my attention and I don't want that.
 

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i've never practiced NILIF i use the MILIF (most in life is free) method.
i pet my dog whenever, i treat him for no reason other than treat him,
if he brings me a toy i'll throw it in house or we'll go to the yard for a romp
or i'll walk and play with him while we're waking. i engage him most of the
time. if i'm doing something and i don't want to stop to engage him i can say "no",
"not now", "go to your bed" or whatever and he stops trying to make me play
with him. he doesn't ask for attention enough for it to be annoying. when we come home from work we always pet him and give him some kind words when we enter the house. our dog is laying on the sofa digesting his breakfast. lol. my GF just walked
over to him and petted him and repeated his name 3 times in a very gentle voice.

you said your dog seemed to have forgotten everything he learned i read
somewhere "when your dog isn't doing what you want you have to stop
and ask yourself what am i doing wrong".
 

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maybe you're ignoring your dog to much. train him to retrieve.
if he's bringing you something to throw for him use that time
for training him to retrieve. he's showing interest. i wouldn't
ignore that because the dog initiated the play. i think you're
pushing your dog away from you. he could be losing interest in you
because of all the ignoring you're presenting.

Hi all

I just started being a lot stricter with the whole NILIF training. Hex is 14month old and seems to have forgotten everything he ever learnt, EVERYTHING is a "make me" scenario.
He's the most frustrating dog I have ever owned :(

>>>>>I have started ignoring him when I first come home, in the morning when I let him out of the Kennel and at night just before dinner when he used to "demand" his belly rub. <<<<

>>>>> I ignore him when he brings me his toys to throw (he loves to play fetch but always on his terms, he won't return all the way or when he does he will try to play tug and not "aus" (which he was able to do just fine a month ago).<<<<<

>>>>>It makes me feel so sad to see his expectant look when I come home and he runs to get the frisbee and drops it at my feet :(
I try to wait till he's run off then get a different toy and call him over to play. <<<<<


>>>>>I'm not sure if all this is working tho he doesn't like attention all that much anyway and now that I ignore him when he wants attention he pretty much can't be bothered with me at all anymore. <<<<<

I have a local lady that will help me she is an ex K9 handler so I hope she can give me some tips on how to work with him. (I'mfully expecting that she'll tell me to get rid of him if I want a "sport" dog )
I'm ready to just give up, put him in the backyard and let him be a pet for the next 10 years then it doesn't matter if he has good manners or not.
Sorry for the long ranting post I'm feeling pretty sad atm.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i've never practiced NILIF i use the MILIF (most in life is free) method.
i pet my dog whenever, i treat him for no reason other than treat him,
if he brings me a toy i'll throw it in house or we'll go to the yard for a romp
or i'll walk and play with him while we're waking. i engage him most of the
time. if i'm doing something and i don't want to stop to engage him i can say "no",
"not now", "go to your bed" or whatever and he stops trying to make me play
with him.
Yeah that's what I usually do, I enjoy my dogs company I want to play with them. He is not harassing me constantly or anything like that, he's actually pretty stand offish except for his morning and evening "cuddle times" which he demands, usually by sticking his head between my legs and flopping on the floor so I can rub his belly.

you said your dog seemed to have forgotten everything he learned i read
somewhere "when your dog isn't doing what you want you have to stop
and ask yourself what am i doing wrong".
The problem is that I can not work out where I have gone wrong - you have no idea how upset this makes me, I know something isn't right but I'm way out of my depth with this dog. That's why I'm so excited to have my friends sister offering to help me with him.

He's always bringing toys to throw, I dont' understand why you would need to get another toy to throw, I use the same toy Frank brings but he must sit in heel position before it's thrown
I decided to get a different toy so it was definitely MY idea to play not his by bringing the toy which is what the NILIF thing seems to recommend.

Hex will bring me his frisbee, that's his favourite but then when I go to reach for it he either jumps away (because he wants to be chased which I will not do) or he grabs hold to play tug.
Tonight I was working on getting him to drop his cuz toy into a bucket for me - he did quite well at that and then I could just throw it to reward him for bringing it back rather than having him jump away or rip it out of my hands or me having to force him to "aus"

Each time he must do something for me before he gets what he wants.
Usually I make him sit or drop (atm he's refusing flat out to drop) before I throw his toy unless he gives it up without a fight then I will trow it straight away as an "extra" reward.
He will sit and wait of his food, he sits and waits to go out of the door.
He was dropping really well until recently now he just looks at me and pretty much gives me the finger - I have to guide him into a drop like a baby puppy. And even then with his most favourite toy or his favourite treats he just sits there and looks at me.

I just feel like I'm doing everything wrong :( maybe I'm not exciting enough when I try to get him to do stuff, but I just don't know :(
 

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There are some dogs who don't have a problem with focusing on the task at hand. Some dogs, although excited that you're home, don't have a problem with respecting your 'space'. Some dogs who would just as soon sit and cuddle (attention) then just about anything else. Some dogs...not so much.

When you have a dog who's world is always on fire, you have to find a way to help it focus on you. NILIF does that. It certainly doesn't make the dog a 'bad' dog. It just means you have to utilize more training tools then a person who's dog brings them their slippers and a night cap when it's time to relax.
 

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Usually the biggest mistakes people make is inconsistent training, lack of leadership and making it or keeping it fun..
 

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First of all...take a huge deep breath and let it out. :)

I think a lot of dogs, especially GSDs hit butthead stage between 10 and 18 months and you wonder where your well trained pup went. That's where you are at, IMHO. I don't practice NILIF as a rule with my Shepherd, but we are doing Puppy-NILIF with our new dog (term I made up, rules I made up, but follows the idea of NILIF)

With Finn, when he hit butthead mode, I put my foot down and I didn't let him get away with murder, but I still kept myself interesting and fun. Yes, I would ignore him when he wasn't doing what he was supposed to do, but I really engaged him when he was doing what I wanted him to do. If he came and sat next to me, I would give him a scritch. I get that he was soliciting attention, but I was rewarding the sitting calmly and reinforcing that's what I want from him; he sits calmly next to me, he gets scritches, if he's jumping around or acting crazy, he gets nothing.

As for not dropping...I just stop the game. The first time he doesn't drop the ball on the first command, game is over and we go back inside. The first time I did this, it was on the first throw and I'm sure he was thinking WTF?! and he was cranky about it. About a half an hour later, we went back out and he got through three throws before we had to come in. Another thing you can try is a game called 2-Ball. It works on his release. Throw one ball, then when he's a few feet from you, show him the second ball and give your drop command. The moment the first ball is falling out of the dogs' mouth, throw the second one. This was our release magic bullet, but your mileage may vary.

I don't think NILIF is good/works for every dog. I feel you run the risk of turning your dog off. JMHO, I would slowly start bonding with your dog again, almost like he's a puppy; every time he does something good, act like it's the best thing he's ever done. You need to re-establish your relationship and bond with your dog all over again...but these are just my .02 cents. :)
 

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I do fun NILIF.

It provides structure. Hans would be seriously stressed if he felt I was not in charge.

No guilt whatsoever about making him want stuff...it just lets him enjoy things more when he gets them.
 

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I think NILIF helps remind the handler to provide continued structure for the dog. I am the leader. All good things come from me. You make me happy, I'll make you happy.

I'm not big on my dog(s) 'working' for a treat, or attention etc. But they do have to earn it. If they want to play, they have to bring the toy - they have to retreive the toy - they have to drop the toy. If they don't - the game is over.

If they want the treat, they have to sit or look or something simple. If they want their meals they have to be quiet and wait nicely for it. I don't hold the bowl and wait on them, if they are jumping around and acting like a maniac, I put the bowl back on the counter and ignore them. When they are quiet, I pick the bowl back up.

If Hondo is jumping on the sliding glass door wanting to be let in, I simply stand with my hand on the door. That reminds him he needs to sit first. Once he is sitting, I open the door. NILIF. This keeps him from jumping on the glass door.

If I keep NILIF in my head, then I'm ALWAYS training my dog(s). I'm always letting them know I'm pleased with an expected behavior. But what I'm not doing is wearing them out with repetitive commands.
 

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I think NILIF helps remind the handler to provide continued structure for the dog. I am the leader. All good things come from me. You make me happy, I'll make you happy.

I'm not big on my dog(s) 'working' for a treat, or attention etc. But they do have to earn it. If they want to play, they have to bring the toy - they have to retreive the toy - they have to drop the toy. If they don't - the game is over.

If they want the treat, they have to sit or look or something simple. If they want their meals they have to be quiet and wait nicely for it. I don't hold the bowl and wait on them, if they are jumping around and acting like a maniac, I put the bowl back on the counter and ignore them. When they are quiet, I pick the bowl back up.

If Hondo is jumping on the sliding glass door wanting to be let in, I simply stand with my hand on the door. That reminds him he needs to sit first. Once he is sitting, I open the door. NILIF. This keeps him from jumping on the glass door.

If I keep NILIF in my head, then I'm ALWAYS training my dog(s). I'm always letting them know I'm pleased with an expected behavior. But what I'm not doing is wearing them out with repetitive commands.

This, a million times this!!!!:D:D:D:D:D This is exactly what I do, but you described it beautifully.

Perfect post, Lilie.:)
 

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I dont feel bad because im not hardcore about it. I feel just as kids need discipline and structure so do our animals. We do it because we love them. Before my GSD puppy I had never heard about NILIF, but because im a momma Ive found Ive been doing this all along. My dogs are an extension of my family and they get disciplined like family.
Im more strict on the puppy because he needs it. Just like my daughter needed me to have more rules with her. :eek:
And before someone comments about dogs are dogs and people are people. I know! thats why my daughter doesnt sleep in a crate :)
 
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