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New to GSDs, looking for pup/breeder in Florida

8K views 83 replies 20 participants last post by  lhczth 
#1 ·
Hey everyone,

I've been doing alot of reading lately and trying to understanding just about everything about getting the right dog for us. Just until recently, I had no idea about breeding/bloodlines or anything similar. I thought, you try to get a purebred breed and you're done. Come to find out it's not that simple.

My wife and I are looking for a GSD that will go along well with my family. I prefer a working line (I want to do protection/obedience training with enough experience). Wife doesn't care. She just wants a beautiful GSD that will protect her when she goes on her runs, or walks with the kids...

Current situation -
  • 2 kids, one 2 and one 3. Both curious about animals. They play with the cats and my parent's dog (sometimes rough until I catch them and correct it)
  • 2 cats in the household. One isn't around much, and other is like a very chill dog. lol
  • fenced in small yard in the back (2,500 sq ft 2 story house)

What I'm looking for out of the GSD
  • Well tempered with kids and cats
  • Medium drive/activity. I want to do protection work (barking/defending owners), and I won't be able to run the dog every single day, so can't have an overly hyper dog.
  • Good family pet/loyal
  • Able to train obedience and protection for my family
  • Want a local breeder in FL so we can see them and make the best choice in person
  • Price... This is the tough one. I see some pups go for 3K+... I can't swing that. over $1500 would be really pushing it
  • Not in the biggest rush, but probably within 30 days or so, we'd like to bring one home

If there are any other questions, please feel free to ask to help me narrow down what we're looking for and where to find one. I've done some research and found few breeders from here. Just no wording on price yet as I just sent our inquires via facebook, or phone calls tomorrow.

I found some breeders from AKC marketplace, and that's when I started realizing about breed types etc. There was a very nice lady who has been breeding for a very long time and has some american showline breeds for ~$1200... I was ready to get one until I realized it might not be exactly what I'm looking for since american show lines don't do protection well and prone to hip problems in the future (correct me if I'm wrong, because her prices were very good with champion bloodline lol)

The most important thing to me is the safety of my family from aggression of dog standpoint. I can't afford to get my kid's hand bit off (or worse, face or some other limb lol) because dog fears kids or something like that. I will be there to train both the dog and the kids (however I think it will be easier to train the dog lol)
 
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#3 · (Edited)
Are you 100% sure you want a GSD? I ask because your description of priorities may lend itself more appropriately to other breeds. GSDs are bred to have aggression. If you're primary concern is a dog that's going to be good with kids and cats, get a lab, or a golden retriever. I'm not saying for one second that a GSD can't be great with both. But, if you can't give your new dog daily exercise....get a gerbil, or a goldfish.

Seriously, most people who end up with GSDs that are aggressive toward them or their kids are people who don't invest the requisite time and effort into their pup. They think the puppy should just come prewired...doesn't happen that way. It takes time and effort. So be honest with yourself, and make sure you're committed to spending your next 8 months to your puppy...otherwise, look for goldfish or gerbils.

Not to pick on you more, but you should spend more than 30 days just looking at the various types of GSDs that are available (with your wife), it's a HUGE spectrum. See them all, talk to people, watch their dogs, find one that really fit and feels right...it's well worth the wait!
 
#8 ·
Yes this is the dog we want. I don't want a golden retriever or a lab. I wrote a much longer response to you, but I'm not going to reply because I respect other member's opinions.

I've done much more research (and still continuing) than many people who just go get one of these dogs and have absolutely no idea how to properly raise it. I also don't believe these dogs are were bred to be aggressive towards kids or aother animals and they can be trained. I do understand one may differ from one another, and that's what I was asking here.

Thank you for your kind input.
 
#4 ·
Just want to clear up a misconception. American showlines are not anymore prone to hip problems than the other lines. Angulation has nothing to do with hips.
 
#5 ·
100% true.

OP, some of your wishlist may be a little unrealistic, including your time frame. The best breeders don't have puppies available all the time and have waiting lists when they do. It is worth waiting for a great breeder if need be.

You say you can't run the dog every day. What CAN you and your family do every day because of daily exercise and mental stimulation isn't possible, I would say a GSD may not be right for you.

Your price limit may be unrealistic to get a dog from a better breeder.

Read the threads on here about land shark puppies. Are you and your wife prepares to deal with that and a toddler together?

I wish someone else would chime in on the protection training...but... a dog can be taught to bark on command as a trick and it looks impressive without having to deal with actual protection training which I think is not something you really want to do if you knew what it entails, costs, and the type of dog that would be good at it.

Many shepherds will bark if something threatening or unusual is going on or if a stranger comes around. I have never had to train one to do that. There are threads on whether your dog would actually protect you or not...i think the consensus is most would not, as it has to be the right kind of dog to begin with and then taught how to get in the fight.
 
#6 ·
Whether or not a dog is prone to hip or other health problems is going to be related to how much health screening the breeder does. Look for OF A or pennhip ratings on parents if they are American dogs

You might not want an American showline to be a real personal protection dog but OP I think you need to learn more about that because I doubt you really want a personal protection dog.

GSDs often have high prey drive. Have you had dogs before? Read on here about what it can be like with a puppy and small kids and a GSD and cats.
 
#11 ·
I have not had a dog before.

I have also read what it's like to have a GSD and kids/cats... from what I see, I haven't seen a single thread (or outside of here) where there were bad incidents with a properly trained dog.

There is a first for everything

I don't want an american showline. That's for sure and has already been decided by me.
 
#7 ·
I’ve been meaning to comment on “responsible breeder” prices for some time now. The vast majority of dogs here on the forum, that are purchased from responsible breeders, are working line or German show line, and I can’t speak to their prices. But in the American show line world, you absolutely can get a good dog for $1200 - $1500. All day long. That’s pretty much the going price among my dog show friends. Now I’m sure if you were to snag one of Rumor’s puppies from Kent, you’re going to pay more than that, lol. So repeatedly telling new people that you can’t get a good dog for that price is false.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Hey there fellow Floridian! Unfortunately our selection here is slim, which part of FL are you from? I can definitely recommend some great trainers at least to you. Not to dissuade you but these dogs are not for the faint of heart, especially for a family with young children and kitties. You will want to pick out the perfect puppy that will fit into your family. A couple things from your original post I noticed that you may have issues with (maybe you've learned this info already on your own but here it is either way), these dogs need exercise every single day. Not just once a day usually. Expect 2 hours minimum of walking (once they are older), on top of that training every single day. And that is usually not enough for a medium drive dog. Have you heard the phrase land shark yet? GSD puppies have a reputation of chewing on their new owners for months causing scars and lots of bleeding. There are certainly ways to redirect this mouthiness but young children may take the brunt of the teething phase. Also expect for the first few weeks sometimes longer to take the puppy outside potty every 15 minutes. These dogs also get big really QUICK! At only a couple months old my puppy was already 50 pounds but they still act like a tiny puppy jumping all over people and kids with teeth and claws. These are not dogs content to just sit in a backyard all day, they need to be socialized and learn about the world around them. A lot of people also struggle with the cat thing, even though GSD make great herding dogs they can be a bit obsessive sometimes over other animals.. just check out the recent threads this week discussing peoples problems with their puppies and cats. I understand not wanting to pay more than $1500 for a puppy, heck we didn't either! But we got what we paid for (and sometimes life just happens) and we had to spend over $5,000 in medical bills on our sick puppy... dogs are SO expensive so set aside some money or look into pet insurance (healthy paws is highly recommended) so in case if something happens you don't have to make a hard decision. There is a reason these dogs are not recommended for first time dog owners, they can be a handful and sometimes challenge their owners but the reward once they have matured and if they are handled properly is worth it.

Here are some threads posted this week about when things go very wrong just so you can get an idea...
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/aggression-good-bad-ugly/741097-euthanizing-aggressive-dog.html
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...king-some-really-good-input-not-good-day.html

Make sure everyone in the family is on board, get everyone involved in training including the kids! A good trainer can make a world of difference especially if you start out right away.

What Cowboysgirl said is spot on , expect two years of **** (I had a working line that took 4 years to mature) and a ton of training and exercise until you get that noble, majestic family dog you are thinking of. If you do decide to go the GSD route I encourage you to come back here and get some tips on training and health, theres a lot of people on here with a wealth of great information. I completely understand why you want a GSD, they are the best breed in the world :) .
 
#16 ·
Hey there, I'm in Palm Beach County. Thanks for the reply.

I did hear the landshark term in this post. It just sounds so crazy compared to what I've been reading other than here and some people.

We have a K9 at work (import from Holland, assume it's a west german breed) that the dept paid 9,000 for. I wanna say it was about 9 months maybe when they got it? I see the dog enough that I can tell these things are not a sit around type dogs. He's still in K9 academy with handler waiting to be FDLE certified. He's hyper, but chill... Compare that to a Malinois we had last year. Thing was a beast, if you got near the vehicle, he'd go off. This guy is chill unless from what I can tell. He's still a pup and loves playing around etc. I've already gotten nibbed couple times from him. lol

What I'm trying to get at is this.... I know they can get VERY expensive... I also believe they can be had for a little less when a puppy lol. I spoke with couple breeders and they told me that these pups grow up around their grandkids etc and I will be fine as long as the kids socialize with the pup and pup knows this is part of family. I also understand the K9 we got gets trained for 700 hours for basic training every day almost. I understand training will be part of the experience, and I look forward to it. I plan on getting with the police k9 trainers that do civilian stuff as well (at least that's the plan)

I know bills can add up too. We had some kind of mega-colon on our cat and it sure wasn't cheap... and surgery before that. I learned my lesson and got insurance. Same will happen with this GSD lol.

What, you guys don't want me to join the GSD community? jeez LOL (kidding)
 
#18 ·
Do you work from home or during the day, will it be your wife, kids and puppy? I only ask as a wife who has been in that situation, it is hard work. You are basically taking on another baby but one with very sharp teeth who unfortunately doesn't wear nappies. And small children are very exciting to puppies. my son was 4 when we got our last puppy and I went through a stage where they couldn't be outside together because son would squeal and run and my land shark puppy would think that was the best game ever.

A GSD in your situation is doable but you have to be extra careful with the pup you go for so I do think your 30 day timeline is unrealistic. Reputable breeders will have a good idea where their puppies are going to go before they are born. And temperament is especially important, there is no way I could have managed my current girl with young children.
 
#19 ·
I have some thoughts that may work for you or may not.
You have two young children and cats, a puppy is going to drive them CRAZY! There is a fairly active GSD rescue close to you I do believe @Magwart can maybe chime in here?
My opinion is that you may be better served with a young adult rescue, and I am not trying to be offensive I am just thinking about your situation, and your budget. Most of my personal dogs have been foster fails and my last patrol dog, and my best one, was of unknown lineage.
Alternately breeders often have young adults who were returned, or kept back for breeding and then proven unsuitable.
If you have your heart set on a breeder pup, and most especially because you have small children, do yourself a favor and wait to find a good one.
Don't get caught up to much in lines, ASL's are still GSD's and I have seen some good ones.
 
#21 ·
How much to trainers cost? Just trying to get a rough idea. is it per session they charge? you go to them and train at their workplace? If you guys could shed some light on that.

You all have me rethinking now. It goes against everything I've been reading lol. and reading couple threads linked here really has me thinking I need trainer often.

So does any of you participating in this thread have no kids and available to be home all day with a puppy? (assuming you acquired a puppy)

Yes, there is a place that has GSD rescues, but they don't adopt to families with kids less than 5.
 
#22 · (Edited)
In Florida, the rescue I've heard good things about is Heidi's Legacy. I absolutely agree that you should probably consider an adult, fostered with kids AND cats, already trained with some basic OB -- a bomb-proof, turn-key dog.

My rescue experience is this: we get 20+ apps for puppies, when we have them. It's super competitive -- we pick breed-experienced homes with past puppy experience who know what they're in for, typically with a nice training reference (on top of their stellar vet reference).

We would never choose to match a a puppy for a first-time dog owner, with no breed experience, no trainer reference, and two toddlers. It's not setting them up for success, and we want the first GSD to be a success, not a stressful mess, so that you get hooked on the breed (and breed rescue).

Before you say, "But I can do it!"....let me tell you what I've seen over and over again.

Most of the time, the busy families with young kids that have adopted puppies from the rescues I know return the dogs. They all seem to somehow realize they made a huge mistake and want to return the puppy...sometimes within a week, or a month, but certainly before a year is up. Sometimes they wait til it's no longer cute, and it's a big, awkward, gangly adolescent that's kind of out of control before returning to us.

It's the pattern that's repeated over and over that led to the rescues not wanting to put puppies in homes with small kids -- hard experience, repeated regularly. So why does it happen? Here's why...

What usually happens is the puppy naturally wants to use the toddlers as chew toys, and play with them like littermates. Human kids squeak the loudest of all the toys, and they're just the right size. The toddlers don't understand that this painful behavior is play, and so they get upset. They sometimes become fearful of the dog and cry when it approaches. The parents feel horrible for doing this to their children. Some of these inexperienced owners will yell at and hit the puppy or crate it all the time or come here and post about how "aggressive" it is. Or they get frustrated at how long redirection takes the pup to learn, and give up right away.

The pup will also try to tear up kids' toys because it can't distinguish (and the kid toys taste like kids, so they're much more interesting) -- and there are more kid tears when the favorite stuffed animal gets gutted and stuffing is strewn everywhere. Then there's the food snatching -- toddlers with Goldfish crackers or Cheerios hold them out to the side, distracted while snacking, and the puppy sees a treat offered and swipes it, clumsily nipping the small morsel of food from the little fingers. Again there are tears, and more anger at the dog, and worries about it becoming dangerous.

And then there are dog potty accidents, for parents already dealing with diapers and human toilet training issues. Add in the need for training classes, when young families are already understandably tired and frazzled, and none of the great plans that the family had for the training the dog actually come to fruition. So the longer it stays, the more obnoxious it becomes.

You'll get lots of stories here about how people had no problem juggling 4 toddlers, 5 dogs, IPO trials, show ring events, a side business, a full time job, and hobbies. These are people who are either super-human, or ultra-savvy dog handlers (and parents!!!) with a system in place to make it all work. The reality is it's like having another kid in terms of time -- a destructive kid with sharp teeth that loves to rip up your favorite possessions.

Mere mortals who are getting their first dog sometimes end up pulling their own hair out within the first few days, and soon thereafter, the puppy goes straight back where it came from. Every single one swore they wouldn't be "that kind" of family that gives up on the pup. They all are 100% sure they want a puppy and won't consider older, easier dogs. They get mad at rescues (and selective breeders) who don't put pups in homes with toddlers.

Some of them go and do it anyway. I've had the same families who got mad at me for not matching them with a puppy later call to ask if they could dump the puppy they ended up buying from some breeder, because the rescue was right all along, and now their breeder won't take it back. Now I have to find it a foster home.

OTOH, when these same families trust a good rescue (or good breeder with a retired dog) to match them a mellow, kid-loving, easy-going adult, some real magic can happen. A dog that's already lived with young kids has already shown its love (or lack thereof) for kids -- you know what you're getting. Some dogs dote on kids, love to romp with them, snuggle with them, are tolerant of being crawled on, keep a watchful eye on them, and are simply AWESOME around little ones. Those are the dogs our rescue tries to put in homes with young kids: bomb proof, already house trained, crate trained, leash trained, with some basic OB to make the young family's life easy. We want these dogs to slide into their new lives easily, not add to a family's stress.

Those families go out into the community and rave about how great their dog is. They come back someday for a second dog when the kids are older. They send their friends. We build our community reputation on adoptions like that.

You should expect that someone will be evaluating how your kids are with dogs during the meet and greet -- I'd expect no difference between good breeders or good rescues in that regard. If you happen to have out of control kids climbing on the dog, if tails are being pulled, or dogs are being hit, all without parental intervention, you will never, ever be approved for adoption by any rescue for any age of dog (and I doubt good breeders would send a puppy home either!). So letting your kid be rough with dogs is absolutely no-go. Parents who are vigilant about teaching kids to be gentle though can sometimes be approved to adopt well-matched, tolerant adult dogs, with some rescues. I can't imagine any good breeder would be any different in that regard.
 
#24 ·
We wanted a German Shepherd when our children were young and the breeder I wanted to buy from would not sell to anyone until their youngest child was school age. I suggest getting a young rescue who has everything you want but is not a puppy. Learn on that dog. Become a good trainer. Save money now. Then when your children are 5 and 6, you will have enough saved for the kind of puppy you want know and the knowledge and experience to train the dog right. You will be much happier with a puppy if you can afford to buy the dog you want. You might find one under $1,500 but chances are much better at $2,000 or higher.

I stopped rescuing because of all the problem dogs I got, but if you are patient and very open about what you want, the rescue will eventually find you the right dog.
 
#28 ·
I'd be willing to go to 2000 and up if needed, I just had no idea how complicated this was. lol...

again, that was a wishlist. I wish my budget doesn't go above 1500. If I have to pay more, then I guess it is what it is, but sounds like I still have some more reading and decision making to do. It's not just here I'm reading asking questions. I'm actively talking to other owners, breeders and trying to get in touch with some trainers.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Yes, my dogs are exercised everyday and I find it interesting to laugh at the thought of that... the one that isn’t, is 11. When they were young, it was more than an hour daily, rain or shine. I work full time, I have yard work, I don’t have kids.

I’ve had dogs my entire life (36yrs), so a good part of it comes second nature.
I would feel comfortable having a baby with an existing dog, or adding a dog once my kids were older..... I would not however get my first dog, no less a gsd, with a 1yr old. I like happy kids, well behaved dogs, and my sanity.
 
#35 ·
Yes, my dogs are exercised everyday and I find it interesting to laugh at the thought of that... the one that isn’t, is 11. When they were young, it was more than an hour daily, rain or shine. I work full time, I have yard work, I don’t have kids.
My 11 and a half year old still wants to go for her daily walk and train at some new thing...she is there with bells on to do this daily. She is FINALLY at the point in her life where she can miss a day and not complain and make my life miserable. But she does not miss many days. At least 6 out of 7 she is doing her same old routine.
 
#41 ·
I have good luck finding GSDs thru Craigslist. But you have to be patient. Check the conditions at the sellers place. Walk away from puppy mills. Also, I would only consider sellers that have both parents on-site so you can have a reasonable assurance that you're getting an actaul GSD and not a mix. Obviously, this is not without risks of getting cheated. So use care, ask questions, and look around.

My most recent GSD puppy is Gypsy which I found thru CL and she cost me $250. No papers or registration. But I have no intention of showing or breeding her, so that doesn't matter. The seller's site was clean and all the pups had their shots on schedule with vet's paperwork and they were clean and healthy. Also, the seller would not release the pups until they were 7 weeks old. Beware of sellers looking to unload pups younger than that. It's a sign they are more interested in the cash rather than the well being of the puppies.

Also, as has been pointed out, GSD puppies are notorious biters and their teeth are really sharp. Small kids may not appreciate the cuts and scrapes a GSD puppy will inflict when playing. They will draw blood. (Accidentally, of course.)
 
#59 ·
Please don't do this. At worst you could wind up with a nightmare at best you are promoting irresponsible breeding.
I know that great dogs occasionally pop up out of nowhere. But for every good one there are whole litters that are not. Promoting bad breeding is a lose lose situation. Ever gsd with bad temperament tars the whole breed with that brush. And bad health leaves heartbreak and suffering in its wake. Better to take them from a rescue or shelter after the wanna be breeders have given up if you wish to gamble.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I just wrote a long response to this thread, the session timed out, and I lost everything, so I'll write a briefer version now. I have two GSDs and two children under 3. I work weekend nights and my husband works weekdays so someone is almost always home. We have fenced acreage to exercise the dogs if we can't take them out for some reason. Your experience could be different, but I don't think I could manage raising a GSD puppy with two toddlers unless I had a lot of childcare support (very involved grandparents or aunts, uncles, ect, who could provide lots of cheap or free babysitting).

I was very strategic about when I chose to bring the GSDs home. I got my first puppy and trained him before the baby was born, I got the second puppy and trained him when the baby was in an easier phase (around 7 months). I couldn't be any happier with the way my children and dogs get along. I think timing, substantial time invested in training, choosing good breeders, and perhaps a little good luck played a large role in that.

I recommend keeping shepherd puppies in obedience classes for their first year or two. It's a great way to practice training among distractions and around various people and dogs in a controlled setting. I try to spend an hour or two a day training and exercising my GSDs, especially when they were younger. I go out with the dogs when the children are napping or when my husband can watch the kids. Now that we have toddlers and less time, I don't have as much time for one-on-one stuff with the dogs, and I do a lot of multi-tasking with kids and dogs together. Also we have a large fenced yard, so if the dogs get rambunctious I can take them outside for ball chasing, tug, or flirt-pole chasing.

I wouldn't blame you if you decide to wait a few years until your kids are in school...only you know what you can manage though.
 
#45 ·
gah, too bad about timing out! I always appreciate long responses and read them carefully.

We do have good child support system with grandparents (it's my mom who babysits when we work)

I certainly plan on classes/training when I have the pup. I understand it's not a take the dog once, and leave it alone until you see trainer again. You are given the lesson when you're with the trainer and your homework is to practice them everyday until you go to class again and given more training. (it's almost the training is for you, not the dog... this isn't like taking your kid to piano lessons lol). Just have to do some research on good trainers in my area. I'm pretty sure the lessons at petsmart is not going to work for me. I also don't like the treat driven training (at least not for a working dog) which I don't the generic trainers use. just my opinion.

We don't have a big yard, but we do have a yard (fenced in). it's enough for a dog to run back and forth in on the grass... we also have a huge open lot in my community I can go to.
 
#43 ·
I have had GSD's my entire life. I have gotten new ones when my kids were born. Always puppies.

Just get a good quality puppy from a great breeder. GSD's are easier to train than other dogs. They love kids, families and your home. Nothing like a German Shepherd. A puppy grows up with your situation and will adapt. You should be able to get one for $1500-$2000.

I would be careful with a working line, they have a tendency to be a little more worked up and need a job. Go for a good show line, that sounds more like what you are looking for. As far as Florida, not much here in the south part as far as breeders.

What part of Florida are you in?
 
#46 ·
I did some research and found a few good ones. There is Von Grunenfeld from KY that several people have recommended here. Also a local one I liked here (in Seville, FL - Tatum Kennels) that has czech dogs.

I guess I'm shying away from american lines because I don't like what changed in the dogs. I like the original "design" of the dog.

I'm in West Palm Beach area
 
#44 · (Edited)
My advise to you is to meet each line and not read them on the internet. I did not want any gsd pups when I had little kids I just did not have time. If someone is insistent and has little kids still knowing the time effort needed they can make it can work if one is diligent about it. with the right pup it can work but they must know the time and energy the pup requires it is similar to bringing home a baby with sharp teeth lol and bionic energy. I found when my kids were older it was same amount of work but I had more time. Protective instincts are per individual dog. I purchased my american showline around 1,500. His prey drive and drives are strong and my kids who are older did not have much fun with him until he was about a year- he was just incredibly mouthy. They absolutely adore him now. I feel incredibly safe with him and is protective. Our female a wgsl very easy pup and very biddeable. I found some pup are a lot mouthier and rambunctious then others. If you do your homework right and be honest and truthful with the kind of pup you need to yourself then find a reputable breeder who match those needs it will work. If you are seeking to have a professional protection dog to train then you best wait to get an older dog as it is hard to say how a pup will turn out. With cats life would be easier with a pup that does not have a high prey drive. If the cats do not feel safe it can be a big challenge. Read the aggression section on this forum there are many stories about mismatched dogs and owners and owners who just do not have time time to provide outlets for the breed or people just make sure it does not become your reality. Even a great adolescent dog from a great breeder can provide a challenge before they become the dream dog.
 
#50 ·
so another question for you guys.

I've been doing some reading on crating etc. There are several threads here talking about people crating puppies. Seems like rule is couple hours for a pup and as they grow, you can expand it. However there are many people that say "well, I work, so they stay in for 8 hours and there is nothing we can do about it". there are varying opinions on that on the threads. ANother suggestion I saw was, some people instead of crating the dog will put the dog in a bathroom or something and let it be it's "kennel" while they are gone. Dog has an area to play, an area if he has to go potty and more area to chill... How is this viewed?

I spoke with my wife, and she said she could take an hour lunch, come home to let the puppy out (if that's what we decide to get) and back in midday... my mom is also home, and I can nicely ask her if she could take the dog out once or twice while we're working too. I just don't know how willing she will considering she's afraid of bigger dogs and this thing will eventually grow (they have a maltese), but I think she'll be OK taking a puppy out in the back yard lol.
 
#53 · (Edited)
so another question for you guys.

I've been doing some reading on crating etc. There are several threads here talking about people crating puppies. Seems like rule is couple hours for a pup and as they grow, you can expand it. However there are many people that say "well, I work, so they stay in for 8 hours and there is nothing we can do about it". there are varying opinions on that on the threads. ANother suggestion I saw was, some people instead of crating the dog will put the dog in a bathroom or something and let it be it's "kennel" while they are gone. Dog has an area to play, an area if he has to go potty and more area to chill... How is this viewed?
You have to read back stories, specifics and context. I can assure you that no one is leaving an 8 week old puppy in a crate for 8 hours a day...and if they are, they have failed to mention the messes, poor hygiene and bad habits they create. Personally I’m not an advocate of EVER allowing a healthy dog to relieve in the house - not on pee pads, litter boxes, designated areas, etc. I find it disgusting, wasteful and confusing to the dog once you decide to change the rules.

Rule of thumb is an hour for every month in age, but each dog is different. By 8 months (around when I acquired most of my dogs), they’ve been able to hold it 8hrs after a transition period of learning my schedule. I stop crating when they’re mature and trustworthy to get along and leave my stuff alone.
 
#54 ·
I agree with what Fodder said, and would like to expand on every puppy is different. You will have to see what your puppy is like. My last two shepherds both took all of one day to potty train and they never had another accident inside until the day they died. My last one wasn't potty trained for a few months and I had to take him out potty literally every 15 minutes throughout the day. I set a 15 minute alarm on my phone, if I snoozed it for even 5 minutes there would be a puddle on the floor. For whatever reason his bladder control just wasn't that great lol. Absolutely invest in a good solid crate. By 4 months old mine was out free in the house and I never had to crate him when I left him home alone, he never destroyed or chewed on anything but I always meet his needs before I leave... I exercise him, let him potty, and leave him with a Kong toy stuffed with snacks to keep him entertained. Everyone is different also in how they prefer their dog to let them know they have to go.. some people make the dog hold it because they feel the dog should be "on their schedule" while others prefer a hint front the dog like nudging them or maybe barking at the door. I taught my guy to ring a set of sleigh bells on the front door when he needs to go potty, he had that down in just a few weeks after we brought him home and made things MUCH easier. Instead of setting the alarm on my phone he would let me know he had to go out... now that he is older he rarely rings the bells because his bladder is much bigger and I generally take him for a walk before he rings them ever. Remember when the puppy is awake, running around and active he will have to potty more frequently.
 
#55 ·
Food rewards are an excellent resource in training, especially hungry puppies. You do need a decent trainer to show you how not to make your dog dependant on the food.

My goal in training is not to remove all the rewards. Why would the dog want to work/cooperate/ etc? My goal is that the dog will perform consistently whether or not rewards are present. I want the same response if I have no food, no toys, no access to either, no training tools, and so on. That does not mean I will never use any of above again. It just means the dog can and will perform without them when the situation calls for it.
 
#56 ·
We all feed our dogs, almost all of use play with our dogs, I hope we all pet our dogs. We can either hand it all out for nothing or deliver it as a reward to reinforce desired behavior. I use everything at my disposal, right down to something they want to go smell, as a reward for what I wanted them to do. They do eat meals and have play time with no strings attached also.

If you do it right they don't even know they are being manipulated, they just think you're awesome and want to do whatever you want because doing stuff with you is so fun
 
#57 · (Edited)
If you think you have time to train with all that you have going on, do this BEFORE adopting:

Go to class every week for a month and watch. Block out at least an hour on your phone for "work with the dog" and do yard work -- no kids, no spouse, you're blocked out. Get up and practice "walking the dog". Ask your spouse to practice blocking off dog time during the day too for dog stuff, and see if she really has any time. Same goes for her coming home for lunch -- it's a way to see how well it really works IRL with her job every day. If you can't successfully block off time every day before the dog comes -- without doing kid stuff -- you won't do any better once the dog comes. If it's easy to make it work in a practice month, you'll know you've really got the time.

I have NEVER yet seen a family with toddlers actually complete a 6 week training course and graduate. Not once. Neither has my trainer -- he knows he'll see them twice and never again when they sign up. Everybody always thinks they're the exception.

By the way, if you're a first responder, Companions for Heroes (a nonprofit) may cover 100% of the adoption fee of a rescue dog if you are pre-approved by Companions AND the rescue. We deal with them all the time, with veterans and first responder adopters, and they're lovely to work with on our end. They don't do this for breeder purchases -- only rescue dogs (but they do work with breed rescues, if the rescue is willing).
 
#58 ·
You’re a police officer. Does your department have a K9 handler? If so, they may know local dog breeders and may also be able to help you if you have questions or need help with a dog or training.

Normally, I believe a dog should have only one handler in training, but if your mother is nearby and willing, get her involved with training from the time you bring the puppy home. She won’t be afraid of the dog as it grows and will have good control. If she can take the puppy out twice a day and your wife can come home at lunch, you should be covered. Introduce your dog to hers so your dog can spend time at their house if necessary.
 
#61 ·
Okay honestly from all the immediate flak you got on this thread and how you haven't got angry at anyone yet and seem level headed, major things going for you there.

If I were in your shoes I highly recommend a nice showline gsd (west german showline) over a working line for your scenario...or a lowww drive working line. I know you can get a calmer working line but I feel like it just might be easier to find what you want in a show line. I have both.

Mine is an amazing family dog (though a handful when younger). Easier going than my working line, easier as a puppy, needs less exercise, level headed. She's super stable with everything but has an extremely territorial side when needed. Someone tried to get into my apartment when my husband was out of the country and she slept by that door all night after police were called. More people are actually afraid of her than my working line male. If it's rainy or cold she's happy to sit in my house doing nothing with me for multiple days. If I am feeling active she's happy to go everywhere too.

I point out the deterrent aspect because until you've been in the breed for awhile, you don't know if you really want to do protection. Protection is A LOT more than "casual bitework and bark work". It requires a lot of obedience first and foremost. Because this is your first dog, hold off on that plan. Most people want to feel like their dog will protect them and make them feel safe -- A nice, stable gsd is going to bark in most scenarios you need them to without any training. In the small handful of scenarios (3 or 4) where I have felt ACTUALLY threatened, my dogs have picked up on that and responded accordingly.

Some working line breeders do breed to more of a pet-type clientele. I know a few that would possibly have what you're looking for, and I know a few showline breeders that actually produce nice dogs. Again, not American showline.
 
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