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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just read an article about a new law in Germany.

In Germany, if you own a dog, you are being taxed. On top of the tax they want you to register the dog in a central registration (which is kind of weird because you already ARE registered due to insurance and the tax) for 20 Euros once your dog is 6 months of age.

Now here is the kicker. If you want to buy a dog, any dog... you will now have to pass a written examination and a practical test to demonstrate your skills which is called "Drivers License for Dogs" http://www.nordsee-zeitung.de/nachrichten/startseite/nachrichten-ueberregional_artikel,-Hundehalter-an-der-kurzen-Leine-_arid,913917.html#sendarticle

Most states, counties etc. already have something similar in place if you want to own one of the banned A-List dogs.

My aunt used to own an American Staffie when the new BSL law was put in place. . She had to undergo a background check, pass a written examination, the dog had to pass a temperament and obedience test and on top she was taxed out the wazoo and grandfathered in.

A friend of mine pays over 600 Euros per year in dog tax to keep his Listed Dogs (BSL).

How do you feel about passing a written and practical test in order to be able to buy a new dog?
 

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I really am for less government controls rather than more.

My problem with the government getting its nose into dog affairs is that we do not elect our legislators on how dog-savy they are, nor should we.

Who would write this test, who would administer the test? What questions would be asked? And what would the cost be to the government, and then the people?

I prefer the idea of chipping each dog. Instead of buying a license each year, you buy a lifetime license which is a microchip. If that dog is found abandoned dead or alive, stray, having bit anyone, then you are seriously responsible. Turning a dog over to a shelter would mean losing your license to get another dog for a set time, 2-5 years maybe.

Not licensing your dog would be a serious fine, $2500. Something major, not the current double the licensing fee. I mean come-on, if I chose not to license my dogs for the last 15 years I would be way ahead -- I have never had animal control visit me for any reason, and they can only check licensing if they visit for a reason, nor have they picked up any of my dogs. I license them because it is the law. But many people do not, because the fine is nothing to worry about. Instead of a $10 license, you have to pay $20, and that gets you licensed and on your way.

I guess I just do not like the idea of a test created by whom? The humane society? Encompassing what? How to feed, water, train, leash your dog?
 

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I'm with Sue on this. Government has far more important things to deal with and honestly, nobody needs them meddling in any more than they already do. Less government.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
** deleted quote removed**

Absolutely, **political comment removed** in Germany and dog laws have become stricter too. It isnt so much about speuter but about education.

The BH has a written part and all the new legislation says, is: if you want to own a dog, you can, BUT you have to educate yourself and pass this test before you do so.

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I think more government control of anything in any country is really not the best answer. I would give Sue a big ditto.
 

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That is the EUROSTANDARD 2010, the owners of all European countries would have to have it, it is not something new, for the majority of European contries these tests are their ordinary routine. No unwanted pets, no shelters, no strays - that is where we are moving to. Dogs are many, so, weighty tax collection as well...
 

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It would be interesting to get the test questions, which would give us more of an understanding of what they are doing. It probably wouldn't change my mind, but it would be interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That is the EUROSTANDARD 2010, the owners of all European countries would have to have it, it is not something new, for the majority of European contries these tests are their ordinary routine. No unwanted pets, no shelters, no strays - that is where we are moving to. Dogs are many, so, weighty tax collection as well...
Looking at Spain and Italy, they sure have a long way to go, though. Its not that easy and each state has its own legislation...
Right now, there are tons of unwanted dogs on death row, imported to Germany from Spain and Italy.
Also, I never had to take the test. It was only for owners with dogs on the bsl list. Hanover is the first place to adopt it for everyone.

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I think the big problem for me is the ones who obey laws are not the problem here. It is like the dog owner on our forum who wants to keep (legally) his intact dog and will be quite responsible about owning it and working with a lawyer to ensure proper compliance. For everyone like him there are scores who just don't care and are not held accountable.

I just wish people were truly held accountable for the actions by their dogs, their kids, their cars etc, instead of trying to force new unenforceable laws on the law abiding. I want my police finding killers and rapists, not checking dog licenses.
 

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In my opinion, weeding out neglectful and irresponsible dog owners is a good thing. If people can't afford to register their dog, they probably can't afford to take care of it. Its the owner, not society, that should be responsible for looking after their dog.
 

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As I keep going on about in the pittie threads, it's about all of us being resonsible dog owners. So something to help enforce responsible dog ownership *could* be a good thing...but then once again Jocoyn brings up a valid concern.

We aren't as egalitarian a society as we like to think.

In addition to those who don't care anyways not abiding by the rules, those who do care and try to follow the rules may be priced out of owning certain breeds.

Just as Mrs K noted how much more expensive it tends to be here to train/compete dogs in IPO and other venues....so will this make dogs more expensive and difficult to own for average law abiding citizens? Good chance it would.....I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As I keep going on about in the pittie threads, it's about all of us being resonsible dog owners. So something to help enforce responsible dog ownership *could* be a good thing...but then once again Jocoyn brings up a valid concern.

We aren't as egalitarian a society as we like to think.

In addition to those who don't care anyways not abiding by the rules, those who do care and try to follow the rules may be priced out of owning certain breeds.

Just as Mrs K noted how much more expensive it tends to be here to train/compete dogs in IPO and other venues....so will this make dogs more expensive and difficult to own for average law abiding citizens? Good chance it would.....I think.
Yeah, but it is only certain breeds that are more expensive. Pit Bulls, Cane Corso, etc. Those dogs are expensive. In Hessian, you have to pass a background check, dog has to pass a temperament and obedience test and the owner has to pass the drivers license for dogs and pass a written test. That educates the owner. They have to take classes, whether they like it or not. Tax per year is about 200 to 250 bucks.

They are already going from door to door to enforce registration in most counties and count the dogs to weed out unlicensed dogs.

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I agree with Selzer on adding government controls.

Additional controls will continue to expand like a cancer. What if they limit the number of dogs owners can own on the belief that pack mentality makes these BSL dogs more dangerous? What if special licenses are required for breeding with limit on the number of BSL dogs produced? What about liability that can transfer back to the breeder for civil lawsuits based on faulty temperaments?...

There are many more things that are dangerous than a dog. People need to be responsible and should be held accountable at an individual level.
 

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Yeah, but it is only certain breeds that are more expensive. Pit Bulls, Cane Corso, etc. Those dogs are expensive. In Hessian, you have to pass a background check, dog has to pass a temperament and obedience test and the owner has to pass the drivers license for dogs and pass a written test. That educates the owner. They have to take classes, whether they like it or not. Tax per year is about 200 to 250 bucks.

They are already going from door to door to enforce registration in most counties and count the dogs to weed out unlicensed dogs.
With such a high tax it seems like those breeds will be de facto illegal. I think education and temperament tests might actually be a good thing overall, but marking certain breeds as 'undesirable' is something the government shouldn't be engaged in, imo. It seems to me the temperament test would weed out any dangerous animals anyway, so this bias serves no purpose.
 

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Given that it'll be a revenue source I suspect **if** implemented there won't be too many differentials from breed to breed in the U.S.

....and once 'they' latch onto a revenue source they usually don't let it go.

I'm not sure about interstate commerce either as it compares U.S. to Germany but I think the implementation would be more difficult and costly in the U.S. given geographic size and population numbers compared to much smaller but densely populated Germany.


Yeah, but it is only certain breeds that are more expensive. Pit Bulls, Cane Corso, etc. Those dogs are expensive. In Hessian, you have to pass a background check, dog has to pass a temperament and obedience test and the owner has to pass the drivers license for dogs and pass a written test. That educates the owner. They have to take classes, whether they like it or not. Tax per year is about 200 to 250 bucks.

They are already going from door to door to enforce registration in most counties and count the dogs to weed out unlicensed dogs.

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btw...I'm basing my assumption on all breeds listed as 'dangerous' would be treated equally under this and that such breeds as beagles or mini poodles and such would be exempt...
 

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I can see registering your dog and paying a small annual fee to support the animal shelter and to ensure rabies vaccinations. In my city and in parks and on trails there are poop bags, and dog parks. So what does a dog owner in Germany get for all the registration and tax fees?

A tax on top of registration is ridiculous. The test and exam is too much. We are not required to have a written test before we have children (although more education could be encouraged). About 10 years ago, the SPCA in my area required that you pay up front when you adopt a dog for 4 training sessions. It's up to you whether you go to them or not, but this was a way for them to get money. So I had to pay when we got our 1st dog, and then the SPCA never scheduled classes. In the least they could have given me a voucher to take to the trainer of my choice, but this is yet another malfunction of govt getting too involved with our lives.
 

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governments everywhere are broke, surely it is inevitable they are going to be making up all sorts of new novel taxes to try get some cash? given the large dog population seems like a smart idea to rake in some bucks without having to spend anything new on infrastructure.

as far as regulation, the responsible are always paying for the sins of the irresponsible, thats a fact of life, get used to it.
 

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governments everywhere are broke, surely it is inevitable they are going to be making up all sorts of new novel taxes to try get some cash? given the large dog population seems like a smart idea to rake in some bucks without having to spend anything new on infrastructure.

as far as regulation, the responsible are always paying for the sins of the irresponsible, thats a fact of life, get used to it.
Governments are broke, but I doubt the the US government will do anything to want to curb pet ownership, especially if these numbers are accurate. Just keep spending!


U.S. Pet Industry Spending Figures & Future Outlook

The following spending statistics are gathered by APPA from various market reseach sources and are not included in the organization's bi-annual National Pet Owners Survey.


Total U.S. Pet Industry Expenditures

Year Billion

2013 $55.53 Estimate
2012 $53.33 Actual
2011 $50.96
2010 $48.35
2009 $45.5
2008 $43.2
2007 $41.2
2006 $38.5
2005 $36.3
2004 $34.4
2003 $32.4
2002 $29.5
2001 $28.5
1998 $23
1996 $21
1994 $17
Estimated 2013 Sales within the U.S. Market

For 2013, it estimated that $55.53 billion will be spent on our pets in the U.S.

Estimated Breakdown:
Food $21.26 billion
Supplies/OTC Medicine $13.21 billion
Vet Care $14.21 billion
Live animal purchases $2.31 billion
Pet Services: grooming & boarding $4.54 billion

Actual Sales within the U.S. Market in 2012
In 2012, $53.33 billion was spent on our pets in the U.S.

Breakdown:
Food $20.64 billion
Supplies/OTC Medicine $12.65 billion
Vet Care $13.67 billion
Live animal purchases $2.21 billion
Pet Services: grooming & boarding $4.16 billion



Data sources and notes

1. Food total is based on PFI research consultant Davenport Co, BCC, Inc plus Packaged Facts U.S. Pet Market Outlook 2011-2012, and IBISWorld 2012 Pet Food Analysis, Dillon Media February, 2012 trends report and Fountain Agricounsel 2011 - 2012 Situation Analysis Report, BCC 2011 Report on Pet Care Products and Services

2. Food category includes treats.

3. Supplies based on APPA historical, BCC Research-The Pet Industry, Fountain Agricounsel 2011 - 2012 Situation Analysis, Dillon, Mercanti Group, Pet Product News, Packaged Facts, Dillon Media Pet Industry 2012 Strategic Outlook, IBISWorld Pet Store Analysis 2012.

4. Veterinary care includes routine vet care/prescription meds. It does not include surgical veterinary care.

5. Veterinary care is based on AVMA, Newsweek, Brakke Consulting, Bain & Co, Fountain Agricounsel 2011-12 Situation Analysis Report, Dillon Media Pet Industry 2012 Strategic Outlook, Packaged Facts Pet Market Outlook 2011-12 and Bayer Veterinary Care Usage Study 2011.

6. Live Animal purchases based on APPA, Barron's Research, Fountain Agricounsel, Franchise Magazine and Euromonitor estimates

7. Other Services based on Packaged Facts estimates, LA Times, APPAState of the Industry Report, Newsweek, Dillon Media Trends Report, IBISWorld and Smallbiztrends.com data

8. Other Services include grooming, boarding, training, pet sitting, miscellaneous

9. Pet insurance figures are included in Veterinary Care



APPA National Pet Owners Survey Statistics: Pet Ownership & Annual Expenses


According to the 2011-2012 APPA National Pet Owners Survey, 62% of U.S. households own a pet, which equates to 72.9 millions homes

In 1988, the first year the survey was conducted, 56% of U.S. households owned a pet as compared to 62% in 2008

Breakdown of pet ownership in the U.S. according to the 2011-2012 APPA National Pet Owners Survey
Number of U.S. Households that Own a Pet (millions)

Bird 5.7
Cat 38.9
Dog 46.3
Equine 2.4
Freshwater Fish 11.9
Saltwater Fish 0.7
Reptile 4.6
Small Animal 5.0



Total Number of Pets Owned in the U.S. (millions)

Bird 16.2
Cat 86.4
Dog 78.2
Equine 7.9
Freshwater Fish 151.1
Saltwater Fish 8.61
Reptile 13.0
Small Animal 16.0


According to the 2011-2012 APPA National Pet Owners Survey, basic annual expenses for dog and cat owners in dollars include:

Dogs Cats
Surgical Vet Visits $407 $425
Routine Vet $248 $219
Food $254 $220
Kennel Boarding $274 $166
Vitamins $95 $43
Travel Expenses $78 $48
Groomer/Grooming Aids $73 $34
Food Treats $70 $41
Toys $43 $21


**Note: APPA does not ask Survey Participants how much in total they spend on their dog or cats annually. The expenses listed above are not all inclusive and each category was asked separately of the survey participant.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I agree with Selzer on adding government controls.

Additional controls will continue to expand like a cancer. What if they limit the number of dogs owners can own on the belief that pack mentality makes these BSL dogs more dangerous? What if special licenses are required for breeding with limit on the number of BSL dogs produced? What about liability that can transfer back to the breeder for civil lawsuits based on faulty temperaments?...

There are many more things that are dangerous than a dog. People need to be responsible and should be held accountable at an individual level.
Limiting the numbers you can own is already done in the US.

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