German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,099 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am hearing all sorts of different opinions on this

The Vet says 5-6 months
I think that is early

What I have heard is that if you do it too early that you stop the harmones that tell the dog when to stop growing So I thought I would ask you guys what is your opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,280 Posts
That is way to young he needs to develop 2 years minimum
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
600 Posts
I think that most Vets will advocate early spay & neuter. Our breeder contract with Myrika was not to spay her prior to 18 mo, or it would nullify the health guarantee.

We spayed our Goldens at 6 mo and I wish we had waited - although they are the picture of perfect health for the Golden Retriever breed...size, shape, weight, hip/joint health, skin/coat, eyes, etc.

I think you will find many varying opinions on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,280 Posts
My trainer neutered his GSD as a pup (6-8) he grew Tall and skinny
which I hear is common if they don't get fully developed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
600 Posts
Originally Posted By: littledmcMy trainer neutered his GSD as a pup (6-8) he grew Tall and skinny
which I hear is common if they don't get fully developed
I've seen some Goldens that are taller than typical, with really long legs and always wonder if that is what happened...early altering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,877 Posts
Why neuter? I mean what are your reasons for neutering?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,415 Posts
You know the reasons. LOL, with some many available for adoption we do not need another 10,000 litters or more.

The Milwaukee Humane Society just took 1,200 dogs (not a mis-print) from a so called back yard breeder. Placing the dogs is going well, but they are finding many of the females are ready to give birth. So spaying/neutering in this case is a most.

However, weird as always I will never allow a GSD that a get from a reliable breeder to be neutered.

As for my rescue dogs, yes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
My GSD got spayed when she was 1 year old. I personally have no problem with speutering at the age of 6 months (but below 6 months is too early for me). In fact, if I got a puppy I'd have it speutered when it was 6 months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
Originally Posted By: selzerWhy neuter? I mean what are your reasons for neutering?
1. To avoid unhealthy and/or dogs that don't fit the breed standard from contributing unhealthiness to their breed.
2. To try to control pet overpopulation. As others have said, there are way too many dogs in shelters right now. They need homes.
3. In females, you get to skip the messy heats.
4. Neutered males are generally easier to handle than unneutered ones.
5. According the HSUS, speutering your dogs give them more health benefits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,301 Posts
Please note that Cookie is a new member and is in an area/state where there are HUGE amounts of PB GSDs in the shelters and not a matching number of responsible pet owners.


IF I were able to control a male dog in terms of exposure to females, never left him out unattended and felt I had the relationship with him where he could listen to me 100 percent, I might hold off until they got older-with the hormone thing-but not OLDER. And would still do it no matter what. As far as # of months, I don't know.

But if I couldn't do all that, and there was any chance of a hookup (considering I couldn't make the female's owner spay terminate) I would snip b/t 7-9months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,877 Posts
CookieGSD:

I am not attacking, just want to levy my opinion on each of these. I am not a fan of early spay/neuter, or spay neuter at all. But I am confident in my ability to keep males and females separated and not ever have an unplanned litter. Breeders, and those who want to breed some day had better have that kind of confidence in their set up or they may as well hang it up.

"1. To avoid unhealthy and/or dogs that don't fit the breed standard from contributing unhealthiness to their breed."

While I agree that if you see a congenital defect in a puppy you will not want to breed it, many of our dogs will not show whether they are suitable to be bred until they are adults. At that point, they have reached their full potential with hormones intact, and you feel the dog is unsuitable for breeding, I have no issue wih spay/neuter. I won't just for the heck of it because I do not want to subject my dogs to an unnecessary surgery and anesthetic, so I choose to spay / neuter only if there is a medical reason or my dog is under for another reason.

"2. To try to control pet overpopulation. As others have said, there are way too many dogs in shelters right now. They need homes."

Personally, I prefer to be responsible with my dogs by not allowing them to get connected, it is really not difficult to do. There are many people who have played with the idea of having puppies, and are less vigilent about security and allow their animals to get pregnant. Responsible people will not help to control pet overpopulation by spaying or neutering, because they are responsible and will not allow their animals to breed unless that is in their plans for the animals and themselves.

3. In females, you get to skip the messy heats.

True, but I do not find the heat cycle as disgusting or painful. But I am a breeder and I see it a bit different, and have a situation where a bit of blood is not a problem. When my bitches are in heat, they are kept in their kennels, in their crates, or wearing a diaper. More of a bother is the inablitity to take them to shows or classes while they are in heat. But I find it is a small price we pay to own a bitch. When I buy a dog or keep a dog that I have bred, I take the whole dog: bark, tail, hair, heats, testicles etc.

4. Neutered males are generally easier to handle than unneutered ones.

No way, I cannot let this one go by. Neutered males are no easier to handle than intact males. This is a huge myth probably dreamed up by HSUS propeganda generators. Some will tell you that keeping intact males is no problem, but once they start breeding females they can change. Maybe. I have not seen this to be the case with my unaltered males. I have the good luck of being in classes with many a neutered dog, and frankly, my boys are a whole lot easier to handle.

5. According the HSUS, speutering your dogs give them more health benefits.

Well, HSUS WOULD say this. I think the truth of the matter is the other way around. A dog without testicals cannot get testicular cancer, true. However, testicular cancer is extremely rare, and when it does show up it is easily remedied. Early spay/neuter has been linked to bone cancer, which has no real fix, and is an awful way for a pupper to go. Early speuter also can affect natural growth. I believe that if the long bones continue to grow beyond what they would have naturally, then it stands to figure that maybe the way the long bones fit into the hip sockets might be affected as well. The hormones do make a difference, otherwise, our people doctors wouldn't be so reluctant to speuter us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts

I'm torn between what to think about the HSUS and have been for a while now.
One side (and some of my best friends are on that side) says that people's dog fight because they aren't neutered. I feel like rolling my eyes when they say that, but I have always believed that intact males aren't as easy to handle. Perhaps I'm wrong. Others go so far as to say that intact males aren't trainable. That's obviously not true, as I have seen several trained intact males.
I'm not sure what to think of early speutering anymore. I still advocate speutering, because no matter how responsible I would try to be an accident could still happen. I believe that the only people who shouldn't have to spay/neuter are those who are responsible breeders and show dogs owners. And I of course think that people should be able to make a choice, so I hate mandetory speutering.

I want to be a responsible breeder one day; I'm currently studying for it and looking for a mentor. But there are few if any good breeders in my area right now, so I haven't been able to find one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,225 Posts
Cookie, all fair reasons however it really gets me how people automatically think an animal will be bred just because it is intact. I realize this happens a lot with laypeople but for those in the know, there are healthful reasons to keep a dog intact and good people who will do so but who'll also cringe at the thought of breeding their intact Bowser.


Yes, being intact can lead to some messy fights. Two intact, mature males that feel they are equals will fight hard. Two intact bitches that feel the other is competition.. well to the victor go the spoils and to the grave goes the loser. For many average dog owners this is an issue and a good reason to examine spay/neuter. Sometimes it helps but sometimes it can make things worse. Trainability can be an issue too but because of distractions: an intact male that catches wind of an in-heat female will likely slam on the mental brakes and concentrate solely on the bitch so this is something to train through and yes, it can be done.

Quote:I still advocate speutering, because no matter how responsible I would try to be an accident could still happen.
Yes, accidents do happen but there are plenty of precautions you can take. If your bitch is in heat and you have intact males that'll drive you up the wall, board her in a TRUSTED facility or keep her segregated at all times- if the males are out, she is in a crate in a room with closed (even locked) doors. Vice versa for the males if the bitch is out. Ensure your leashes and collars are strong so they don't fail and always- ALWAYS- keep your bitch on leash when she is on heat. Yes, even in your fenced yard. Know where all dogs in your household are at all times and if you live with others make sure they know the rules as well.

Cookie, have you tried looking for breeders in your area who are involved with other breeds? It doesn't matter if it's a GSD or a lab or an airedale or a rottie, breeding and whelping are pretty similar across the board. Your best bet would be to shoot for a like size/weight range and for a breed with similar concerns (a breed that always needs to deliver by C-section may not be a good choice). We have a member on here who is a "whelp helper" for a Weimaraner breeder.
Obviously a GSD breeder can help you more with the pedigree end and breed-specific questions, so have you also checked for breeders of all types of GSD? There are American show, German show, and European (German, Czech, DDR) working lines, so make sure you look for all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
Originally Posted By: DianaMCookie, have you tried looking for breeders in your area who are involved with other breeds? It doesn't matter if it's a GSD or a lab or an airedale or a rottie, breeding and whelping are pretty similar across the board. Your best bet would be to shoot for a like size/weight range and for a breed with similar concerns (a breed that always needs to deliver by C-section may not be a good choice). We have a member on here who is a "whelp helper" for a Weimaraner breeder.
Obviously a GSD breeder can help you more with the pedigree end and breed-specific questions, so have you also checked for breeders of all types of GSD? There are American show, German show, and European (German, Czech, DDR) working lines, so make sure you look for all.
I have a friend who used to be a GSD breeder and she is nice, but I'm not sure if she was reputable or not. She's much older than me, so I'm nervous about asking her questions about her past breeding practices and experiences.
Good breeders of any breed are hard to find in my area. We'll be moving to Arkansas soon if my uncle can sell his house, maybe I'll have better luck finding a good breeder who could mentor me there...
I'd definitely want to be a breeder of European line GSDs though, I personally hate the severe rear angulation in the American show lines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,225 Posts
You know, you are less than an hour's drive from Jacksonville.. have you tried to check there? For the Dog Fancy, an hour or less is considered a VERY reasonable drive.
It does make it more tough if the bitch starts whelping at 3am right before you go to work but it may be doable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
That might work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
Originally Posted By: DianaM Two intact bitches that feel the other is competition.. well to the victor go the spoils and to the grave goes the loser.
Spaying doesn't necessarily make a nickles worth of difference with a lot of females. The WORST fights I have even seen were between SPAYED females. And they have been females that were spayed earlier (6 to 9 months,) in some cases and in other cases between females that were spayed as adults.

They don't say "b!tches fight for BREATHING rights" for NO reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,451 Posts
Count Bruno, there are a lot of pros and cons for either side, both have some compelling arguments. In the end it will be up to you to do what you think is best.

I am getting a male next month and I'm not planning on neutering him at all. I'm not planning to breed him either. I'm not saying I WONT neuter him, but I have no plans to.

My female GSD was spayed at age 3 and my rescue mutt...I'm not sure but I think he was neutered VERY young, as he is very tall and lanky. His back legs are so long, his hips/butt is higher than his wither! I adopted him at age 1.5, so he was neutered long before, when he was born in the rescue (then his adopters had to return him and we adopted him after he was in foster care).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
692 Posts
My breeder told me they don't recommend neutering at all, and if I do to wait until 2 years or their health warranty is voided. This was the most powerful motivator for me...as you would think it would be in their best interest to have their dogs neutered as to avoid people using their line to start their own breeding programs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,877 Posts
For what its worth, Arwen and Jenna have been at odds since Jenna was a little under a year old. Spaying Arwen made no difference whatsoever.

Speutering for behavior reasons sounds well and good, but it is not a magic button to stop issues. It has to be backed up with leadership and training. And guess what, with leadership and training you can keep them intact without behavior problems.

Yes, having two intact males could be a problem. But that does not mean if you have an intact male and your friend has one there will be problems. It does not mean that it will be a problem in training classes. Because I have found that sparing about intact bitches is a pack behavior and really does not follow the dog outside of the pack. Rush and Dubya will fight, but Rushie has never shown any sign of any aggression whatsoever to a non pack member and we are in close quarters training and showing with other intact animals.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top