I personally would try not to neuter a dog before he's 18 to 24 months of age.
Neutering Confusion
Hi There!
My sister (A vet) suggested I neuter our 9 week old GS Puppy at 6 months, as soon as he can lift his leg, but the breeder (A well respected breeder and the president of the South Island GSD Club), is adamant no earlier than 12 months old.
Both are sources I trust, I don't want to stunt my Dogs growth and we want him to be capable of protecting my family when I am not at home, but we are reluctant to put up with un-neutered behaviors.
Information or advice would be appreciated.
My sister (A vet) suggested I neuter our 9 week old GS Puppy at 6 months, as soon as he can lift his leg, but the breeder (A well respected breeder and the president of the South Island GSD Club), is adamant no earlier than 12 months old.
Both are sources I trust, I don't want to stunt my Dogs growth and we want him to be capable of protecting my family when I am not at home, but we are reluctant to put up with un-neutered behaviors.
Information or advice would be appreciated.
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I agree with Gayle, you don't want to neuter a male before than so that they grow to the size a male is supose to get. I would wait until they get to at least 18 months before you neuter them. A female is different.
Oh boy you are going to get both answers here too... I was forced to have Jesse neutered at 6 months by shelter and daycare. 
, oh well we have seen some good changes since then, ie he doesn't hump every dog anymore, he is more devoted and loving to us. I still believe that he will still protect me if I am in any danger at home or else where. Just as an example he is good with people and dogs and all living things, but god help you if you come into my house when I am sleeping. My husband came home from work late quietly and Jesse was sleeping with me on the bed and I didn't hear him but woke up to Jesse on top of me, hair up and growling and barking toward the bedroom door and didn't stop till my husband identified himself. Jesse at 6 months was ready to give his life for me.
, oh well we have seen some good changes since then, ie he doesn't hump every dog anymore, he is more devoted and loving to us. I still believe that he will still protect me if I am in any danger at home or else where. Just as an example he is good with people and dogs and all living things, but god help you if you come into my house when I am sleeping. My husband came home from work late quietly and Jesse was sleeping with me on the bed and I didn't hear him but woke up to Jesse on top of me, hair up and growling and barking toward the bedroom door and didn't stop till my husband identified himself. Jesse at 6 months was ready to give his life for me.
You won't stunt his growth by neutering as early neutering makes a dog slightly taller (by as much as half an inch) than neutering later, rather than shorter. Has to do with when the horomones close the long bones.
Is it in your contract from your breeder? If it stipulates you need to wait, that might settle the issue.
The main difference around here we notice with early neutering versus later is marking.
Is it in your contract from your breeder? If it stipulates you need to wait, that might settle the issue.
The main difference around here we notice with early neutering versus later is marking.
Hormones are an important part of proper mental and physical development, not just reproduction. Therefore, I am of the opinion it is always best to allow the dog to go through puberty and fully mature before neutering. That means no earlier than18-24 months old.
I think it depends on you and your dog. I think it depends on what kind of leader you are and how dominate your dog is towards people.
I have a 15 month old intact male and I have no behavior problems. He does not mark in the house. He doesn't really even mark outside on walks. He tried to pull to trees and all things vertical at first, but I decided we were walking and I wasn't going to allow 14 pee breaks on our walks so I don't stop anymore and neither does he. There is no humping. I don't allow it. It's bad manners and should be treated as such. When we meet other dogs, I ask him to sit or platz and the command is to be held. I don't have to worry about roaming, because he's never loose without me. He is starting to be more interested in females in heat, but we don't encounter those very often, so it's not a huge deal. I find as he gets older, he doesn't always get along with all dogs. He is not dog aggessive and does well with my friends dogs, but definitely not taking him to a dog park anytime soon. He seems to attract trouble, but he never starts it. His high prey drive can also be troublesome with small dogs that run and dart quickly (but this would be in him regardless).
I don't think protectiveness has much of anything to do with neutering vs. intact. There are plenty of neutered dogs that will bark when something strange is going on. As to whether or not you dog will confront an intruder has more to do with your dog's personality I think. So far, my guy will let just about anyone in the house without any real concern (maintenance men, friends, family etc). But he still has some maturing to do, so we'll see.
I think if you can wait, you should. I understand vets who want to neuter early. It certainly controls the pet population and stops accidents if you are not always with youur dog or expect to let him loose. I don't think it really changes personality/behavior apart from the peeing and the females.
I have a 15 month old intact male and I have no behavior problems. He does not mark in the house. He doesn't really even mark outside on walks. He tried to pull to trees and all things vertical at first, but I decided we were walking and I wasn't going to allow 14 pee breaks on our walks so I don't stop anymore and neither does he. There is no humping. I don't allow it. It's bad manners and should be treated as such. When we meet other dogs, I ask him to sit or platz and the command is to be held. I don't have to worry about roaming, because he's never loose without me. He is starting to be more interested in females in heat, but we don't encounter those very often, so it's not a huge deal. I find as he gets older, he doesn't always get along with all dogs. He is not dog aggessive and does well with my friends dogs, but definitely not taking him to a dog park anytime soon. He seems to attract trouble, but he never starts it. His high prey drive can also be troublesome with small dogs that run and dart quickly (but this would be in him regardless).
I don't think protectiveness has much of anything to do with neutering vs. intact. There are plenty of neutered dogs that will bark when something strange is going on. As to whether or not you dog will confront an intruder has more to do with your dog's personality I think. So far, my guy will let just about anyone in the house without any real concern (maintenance men, friends, family etc). But he still has some maturing to do, so we'll see.
I think if you can wait, you should. I understand vets who want to neuter early. It certainly controls the pet population and stops accidents if you are not always with youur dog or expect to let him loose. I don't think it really changes personality/behavior apart from the peeing and the females.
Good points on all the posts.
I agree about not neutering before a year, whether it is male or female. The hormones aid the growth plates and help the dog develop.
I have had males neutered at 6 months and at 9 months. My current male pup is a year old. I see no difference in behavior, no male related issues at all. The hormones have no relation to his ability to protect you. My neutered males have been just as protective as the intact male is.
I think the vets are just taught that early neuter equals fewer "oops" litters and they endorse it for that reason. You can still respect your vet and disagree with his/her stand on this.
My contract requires me to wait until 12 months to neuter Havoc. My vet suggested 6 months also. I highly respect her and I simply explained to her that I was obligated under contract to wait a year and that I had no issue with him being intact. She never mentioned it again. I am neutering him in a few weeks, he will be just short of 13 months.
You can explain to your vet what your stance is on this and that you do intend to neuter at a later time and if they are a good vet they will respect that.
I agree about not neutering before a year, whether it is male or female. The hormones aid the growth plates and help the dog develop.
I have had males neutered at 6 months and at 9 months. My current male pup is a year old. I see no difference in behavior, no male related issues at all. The hormones have no relation to his ability to protect you. My neutered males have been just as protective as the intact male is.
I think the vets are just taught that early neuter equals fewer "oops" litters and they endorse it for that reason. You can still respect your vet and disagree with his/her stand on this.
My contract requires me to wait until 12 months to neuter Havoc. My vet suggested 6 months also. I highly respect her and I simply explained to her that I was obligated under contract to wait a year and that I had no issue with him being intact. She never mentioned it again. I am neutering him in a few weeks, he will be just short of 13 months.
You can explain to your vet what your stance is on this and that you do intend to neuter at a later time and if they are a good vet they will respect that.
Don't forget too that some lines take it seems for-e-ver to mature. I have an 18 month old Czech male who's response to a stranger in the evelator grabbing and squooooshing his muzzle into ameoba-like shapes with black leather gloved hands, was to lower his ears and try to kiss around his muzzle being squooshed. That's a puppy response. No marking indoors, not even any marking on walks yet. His whole vibe is pure "puppy" still. These are just his lines, they mature very late.
Know the lines your dog comes from, to give you an idea when you would neuter, if you do choose to neuter.
Know the lines your dog comes from, to give you an idea when you would neuter, if you do choose to neuter.
Chris Zink, the well-known canine structure expert, spoke at length on this topic when she was here last summer - my vet was more on the side of earlier S/N, but Chris convinced her otherwise during the seminar.
For a thorough, excellent review of the topic, check out the National Animal Interest Alliance website (www.naiaonline.org) - their home page has a link to a PDF on the long-term health risks of early spay/neuter.
For a thorough, excellent review of the topic, check out the National Animal Interest Alliance website (www.naiaonline.org) - their home page has a link to a PDF on the long-term health risks of early spay/neuter.
I agree totally. I've heard it referred to as "locked in puppyhood" if they are neutered before then, and I have two 3-year-olds to prove it. They were neutered at 6 months and are still immature. One dog would make me question this, but having 2 brothers acting the same convinces me of this.Originally Posted By: Chris WildHormones are an important part of proper mental and physical development, not just reproduction. Therefore, I am of the opinion it is always best to allow the dog to go through puberty and fully mature before neutering. That means no earlier than18-24 months old.
I agree. I always tell people that it depends more on them than the dog.Originally Posted By: JKlatskyI think it depends on you and your dog. I think it depends on what kind of leader you are and how dominate your dog is towards people.
If you can wait until the dog matures, that would be ideal. If you will have trouble controlling your dog when an in season female is around or in the neighborhood, have him neutered before there is a litter of unwanted/unplanned pups out there.
I am not seeing any of my males locked in puppyhood. Two are quite serious, actually. One is goofy (the Lab gene
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) and the other is perpetually trying to mount my spayed female, so if you looked at that group for any proof of anything, you'd be more confused!
Look at true research not sponsored by any pro or con groups, your lifestyle, your ability to manage a dog in general and a dog with a desire to mate specifically in deciding when to have him neutered.
But our anectdotes on how our dogs act are really not valid in terms of meaning.
Look at true research not sponsored by any pro or con groups, your lifestyle, your ability to manage a dog in general and a dog with a desire to mate specifically in deciding when to have him neutered.
But our anectdotes on how our dogs act are really not valid in terms of meaning.
Jeesh! I didn't even need to post-that is exactly what I wanted to say.Quote:I agree. I always tell people that it depends more on them than the dog.
If you can wait until the dog matures, that would be ideal. If you will have trouble controlling your dog when an in season female is around or in the neighborhood, have him neutered before there is a litter of unwanted/unplanned pups out there.
Okay - sorry I brought up my experience in the matter.Originally Posted By: JeanKBBMMMAANBut our anectdotes on how our dogs act are really not valid in terms of meaning.
I still vote for your post, Vinnie!
The reason why I think stories are nice, and funny, but not really accurate for purposes of making decisions is because there are SO many factors other than the neutering that determine what they act like.
So while it's interesting and may even be why your dogs act the way they do in some way, you never know if someone is going to read this and say my gosh! I don't want my dog to be like that! Or vice versa, and then do something to the dog and have them not turn out in the way they intended and wonder what the heck!
So for your two immature that you are convinced (that wording can convince others too-and I am not trying to be really obnoxious though I realize I am annoying me so I must be annoying you!) are a result of neutering, I can counter with 3 of 4 who act quite adult, all neutered under 10 months. The goofy one...I still say is the lab gene! He's silly. BUT, has a serious side.
So I might look and say that two males raised together as litter mates without a female living with them (if that is the case) can juvenilize them. Toss in a female, or another dog, and you may see different dogs!
Sorry-again, I am not trying to be a total pain but do want people to evaluate information well.
The reason why I think stories are nice, and funny, but not really accurate for purposes of making decisions is because there are SO many factors other than the neutering that determine what they act like.
So while it's interesting and may even be why your dogs act the way they do in some way, you never know if someone is going to read this and say my gosh! I don't want my dog to be like that! Or vice versa, and then do something to the dog and have them not turn out in the way they intended and wonder what the heck!
So for your two immature that you are convinced (that wording can convince others too-and I am not trying to be really obnoxious though I realize I am annoying me so I must be annoying you!) are a result of neutering, I can counter with 3 of 4 who act quite adult, all neutered under 10 months. The goofy one...I still say is the lab gene! He's silly. BUT, has a serious side.
So I might look and say that two males raised together as litter mates without a female living with them (if that is the case) can juvenilize them. Toss in a female, or another dog, and you may see different dogs!
Sorry-again, I am not trying to be a total pain but do want people to evaluate information well.
Jean, I do understand what you’re saying and why you’re being cautious, but after I had my boys neutered (and we did it at a young age because we have an unsprayed female [with MegaE] living with us), I did more research on the pros and cons of early neutering, and “lack of maturity” was one of the cons mentioned more than once.
I can’t even quite describe what I mean by their immaturity. They both still try to mate (and have managed at least once, I think) with our unspayed female. I have no doubt that they would bite if they or we were threatened. It’s the lack of drive or serious work ethic (?) that I’m talking about. Would they be high-drive working dogs had they not been neutered early? Who knows? I rather doubt it, but I think their intensity would have been at a higher level. Does this make sense?
I do agree that every dog is different, and absolutely agree (proof positive) that a dog should be neutered if the possibility of unwanted puppies exists.
I can’t even quite describe what I mean by their immaturity. They both still try to mate (and have managed at least once, I think) with our unspayed female. I have no doubt that they would bite if they or we were threatened. It’s the lack of drive or serious work ethic (?) that I’m talking about. Would they be high-drive working dogs had they not been neutered early? Who knows? I rather doubt it, but I think their intensity would have been at a higher level. Does this make sense?
I do agree that every dog is different, and absolutely agree (proof positive) that a dog should be neutered if the possibility of unwanted puppies exists.
Originally Posted By: GrandJanI do agree that every dog is different, and absolutely agree (proof positive) that a dog should be neutered if the possibility of unwanted puppies exists.
Seriously-what is the problem with that! My foster Jaeger has to be more interested in Ava (spayed) than any intact male ever has been. Well, not ever since she was taken to the shelter with a litter of puppies, but you know what I mean!
Thanks for understanding-I appreciate it.
If you do not own an intact bitch, I cannot see a problem with having the puppy remain intact until it is 18-144 months old.
Not all intact dogs lift their legs. Some neutered dogs lift their legs. It depends. If you have an intact bitch, plan on your intact dog marking in your intact house when she is in season.
A dog can smell a bitch in heat up to two miles away. It is certainly odd that no one in my corner of the county owns an intact bitch but me. Oh yeah, there is another breeder a few hundred feet down the road. Must be down-wind.
Dogs may whine and carry on when there are bitches in season if they are both mature and know what they are missing. Most dogs I know do not have any problems.
Roaming is not an issue, because if your intention is to let your dog run free, you will be tarred and feathered and run off of the board on a rail.
Rushie turned two in January. He has never humped ANYONE's leg. He is not aggressive, excitable, hyper, or even idiotic when my girls are in heat. He and Dubya (4 year old intact dog) will grunt at each other. It is a small price to pay for keeping his hormones where they belong, and letting him grow up with the benefit of all the parts he was born with. Rushie has never grumped or growled at another dog, even in close quarters at shows or training classes.
If you want to get your dog neutered. Get him neutered. It is totally unnecessary though.
Oh, Rushie does display the family jewels quite often -- usually in training classes when everyone is looking. Cujo (3 year old GSD owned by my parents) does this and he was neutered at 18 weeks old. Cujo grew to be 3 inches taller and than his father.
I will not have a dog neutered that young again. Since I have the means to contain my dogs, I will not neuter again unless there is a life threatening condition that requires it.
Not all intact dogs lift their legs. Some neutered dogs lift their legs. It depends. If you have an intact bitch, plan on your intact dog marking in your intact house when she is in season.
A dog can smell a bitch in heat up to two miles away. It is certainly odd that no one in my corner of the county owns an intact bitch but me. Oh yeah, there is another breeder a few hundred feet down the road. Must be down-wind.
Dogs may whine and carry on when there are bitches in season if they are both mature and know what they are missing. Most dogs I know do not have any problems.
Roaming is not an issue, because if your intention is to let your dog run free, you will be tarred and feathered and run off of the board on a rail.
Rushie turned two in January. He has never humped ANYONE's leg. He is not aggressive, excitable, hyper, or even idiotic when my girls are in heat. He and Dubya (4 year old intact dog) will grunt at each other. It is a small price to pay for keeping his hormones where they belong, and letting him grow up with the benefit of all the parts he was born with. Rushie has never grumped or growled at another dog, even in close quarters at shows or training classes.
If you want to get your dog neutered. Get him neutered. It is totally unnecessary though.
Oh, Rushie does display the family jewels quite often -- usually in training classes when everyone is looking. Cujo (3 year old GSD owned by my parents) does this and he was neutered at 18 weeks old. Cujo grew to be 3 inches taller and than his father.
I will not have a dog neutered that young again. Since I have the means to contain my dogs, I will not neuter again unless there is a life threatening condition that requires it.
Vets are all about early speutering. It doesn't mean they are right, it also doesn't mean they are wrong.
The unwanted pet population compells many people to speuter as early as possible.
Me...I'm waiting until my girl is 2 years old, and I've told her vet this. EVERY TIME we go there I am asked when we're spaying her, and given a printed up quote.
Last time I simply told the tech that she's wasting their paper on me.
The unwanted pet population compells many people to speuter as early as possible.
Me...I'm waiting until my girl is 2 years old, and I've told her vet this. EVERY TIME we go there I am asked when we're spaying her, and given a printed up quote.
Last time I simply told the tech that she's wasting their paper on me.
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