[GattiB]

Recently I rented a new home in a very mountainy area. it is very dry and there were a lot of fire ants in the backyard when i first moved in. a couple of times (once before moving in) we think he was biten by fire ants because it had a itchy rash on his belly and they turned to pustules. first time we got anti biotic and some spray. they went away. then when we moved in, he kind of got the same thing, pustules under his belly and a rash. so we went back, got more anti-biotic, and got an exterminator. it cleared up well until about a couple weeks later i noticed the house started smelling like butthole, and he was chewing the heck out of his butt. took him to the vet, very red butt, and some STRANGE brownish scabbing around the affected area (anus).... she gave me prednisone 1.5 20mg daily, then of course the tapering. it started doing well, but he became bloated by day 2, and on day 3 i called, they asked if his butt looked better and i advised them yes. they said to start tapering him off then, which was one day earlier than the tapering was supposed to begin.

so then literally the next few days, i noticed more of the brown liquid like scabbing underneath his coat around his anus area. and he would chew and chew at it. so of course i took him back, and because the scabs/blister like pustules were deep into his coat, i guess i missed them on the first time around (when his anus was red at the doctor) ... so i am a horrible parent, and felt awful. we went back to the doctor, and got a lower dose of the prednisone 1 20mg a day, plus a anti biotic cuz he started having the pustules under his tummy again. so we continued that therapy and it was doing SOOOO good, i really thought God was going to help us out on this one. sadly not, god is not present with us at this time. he finished off both the steroid and anti biotic, and even though im washing his anal regon eveyr 4 days or so to keep it clean and from developing bacteria, it looks to be coming back.

it is so weird and at first i asked the docotr if it was pyoderma, she said no cuz its happening too much in the rear, and why would it make his butt all inflammed. so needless to say, i have been praying for the last 4 years of my life eveyr night, and just recently at the second on sight of this HORRIBLE skin eating infection, i stopped praying, cuz i literally realized there is no god (not to offend, simply to portray how horrible this all makes me feel). it appears as though it is coming back, cause after we shaved him (per doctor orders to see the actual infection) his back lags look they have little bumps and sores starting to cover with brown scabbing liquid ... so i have been putting remicin on it, the doctor gave us this for his ear a while back for an infection of possible bites in his ear. she told us this would help heal, and it is NOT neccesary to continue its therapy like that of a antio biotic.

i washedh im yesterday, and am starting to put a little of the remicin on his hind leg where it looks like the infectious horrendous disease is trying to make a comeback.... does ANYONE know what this is ... please please PLEASE help me. . . she said if it comes back after the second set of steroids (which it looks to be doing) he will have to be on cyclo sporine for the rest of his life. i feel HORRIBLE and that medication is incredibly expensive... i am going to have to sell my car and anything else i have just to aford his med, and my rent ... which is not a problem, but i dont like having my dog on mediciation for life.... he already got a eye infection from the last steroid, and is on a eye steroid now... somebody please tell me you have an idea... anybody!:help:

 

[GattiB]

it WAS primarily in the anal area at first, but it literally looks like it is moving away from it, as it creeps down his back legs.... and i already tried perianal fistulas but there are no gapping holes ... and also, remember, there were pustules under the belly and by the penis area as well,. plus they are down his entire leg.

so im not compltely throwing out the fisutla, but the docotr did ... im just trying ANYTHING ... the eye ointment is i forget ... will post it RIGHT when i get home. sorry, but thank you SO much. forums are ALWAYS so helpful and i am grateful to have kind hearted people like yourself assist me with my awful dilema. ( its like im watching my dog die slowly, i feel horrible)

oh im feeding Eukanuba, been feeding since a little puppy. the german shepherd breed kind.

 

[GattiB]

fistulas can travel down the legs and the tail also. It could be a bad Staph infection, that has created a bad fistula situation. In a sense, that might be the best type of fistula, that can be cleared up with long term abx therapy, as opposed to immune suppression with the big guns.

First thing you gotta do is change foods - no corn, no sorghum, no by-products, and probably, at this point, no chicken or poultry. Preferably a single protein (novel untried protein is the best), and single carb source. This part is very important.

holly crap!! thats why they gave him a anti biotic on the second go around, cause the pustules underneath looked like a little staph infection (her EXACT words)... this is WHY i LOVE forums. your good! what is ABX therapy???
also, eukanuba is not good??? what kind of food should i get, and where can i get, also should i do half and half to mix it with the old eukanuba at first...

also, he has been on eukanuba since one year or maybe one a half, and never had this problem, maybe it is the climate and all the infections??

 

[GattiB]

Has any allergy testing been done? Does it get worse at certain times and better at others?

have not had allergy testing done, serously been pretty poor since moving into a house, then all of this vet bills from the last couple months. would NOT rule out having it done, but just havent yet. and no, doesnt get worse or better during certain times cause the SECOND i see something wrong, i take him to the vet, imeediately.... so i really dont have enough time to view the process of it... it gets worse as he tries to chew it. ... but i have negated that by using benadryls twice daily....

 

[GattiB]

Oops, abx = antibiotic(s)

Did the abx prescribed before help? What was it?

The steroids are helping only superficially - reducing the inflammation caused by infection, yet making the underlying infection worse.

they most certainly did. but the first trip, there weren't brown liquid like scabbings taking over his legs. it was handling the pustules. BUT during the second round of steroids, he was on a anti bitioc called cefpodxime and it was very effective (however it was during the same time of the steroid therapy as well, so cant really pin point which had the better effect)
and oh, no ticks around me, im in Arizona, middle of the mountains so not much except spiders, ants and squirrel like prairie rodents... we do wash him off every time he comes in just in case its the ground or rocks in the back, something i WAS doing was after wiping his paws wipe his rear end, but now im doing it with a new paper towel instead of the one i wipe his paws with.
keep the good ideas coming, you guys are the only bit of sunshine hope that i have had in the last 3 months. everything is pulling me down and you guys are helping me come back up. thank you, please keep it up

 

[GattiB]

Gatti where in AZ are you? Im here too and a dog was brought into my vets office the other day while I was in there with this same thing you are describing. The dog smelt HORRIBLE I could smell him from where I was sitting and it ended up being perianal fistulas.

scottsdale... i dont think it was me.... or they didnt tell me it was PF, lol (not really funny but gota find a laugh somewhere eh?)

 

[GattiB]

every1, please review this thread as well, it seems as though the symtpons are TOO coincidentally identical. please review and post your reply to both/one of our threads so we can hopefully begin the revival of our dogs skin/life.
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/144973-allergy.html

 

[GattiB]

Just to be sure, you might want to google your area and ticks. According to this, there are 25 species of ticks in Arizona: http://ag.arizona.edu/yavapai/publications/yavcobulletins/Ticks.pdf and I know in some mountainous areas in CA, they can be bad.

Your dog needs to be treated with some extended antibiotics and NO steroids for a period of time. Perhaps also consider adding an antifungal - I think that there is a risk of certain fungal infections in Arizona? I think that's in the more desert areas though, I could be wrong.

There is some fistula info here: Perianal Fistulas - GermanShepherdHome.net

You might want to use some warm compress on the anal area, soaked in Epsom salts is very comforting and helpful. Desitin ointment with zinc in it is also helpful.

So are you saying you think it is PF?

I go to the vets on Tuesday for the check up on his eye, and I wil have her re-evaluate his legs since that is where it is beginning again. At that time I will recommend your suggestions to her about an anti-fungal and abx for a lengthier period of time and see what she says, you sound pretty smart so hopefully she agrees and quits it with this "Steroids for life" stuff. I love the doc to death, but it kills me, and my bank thinking of 200$ a month just for steroids for him.

I've read about making a compress but it didnt make sense, could you confirm how to do so.

Also, should I be looking for ticks? I mean he is shaved so i really dont think it could hiding anywhere, or are you talking about a possible infection from a prior tick? Also not many bushes in my yard and really no grass, so even they have no where to hide and hitch a ride.

I'm going to try everything your recommending, but about the diet, why should i be switching that up, if they dont think it is PF?

Thank you SO much LISA for all your incredible tips, I look forward to reviewing them and your answers in more depth tomorrow. You have seriously given me hope in saving my dog, I am eternally grateful.

 

[GattiB]

Ongoing skin problems are a sign that the food isn't working - the skin is the largest organ of elimination in the body. Plus, Euk is an overpriced crummy food, so it makes sense that a better food will help his health.

The reason I was concerned about the tick issue, is because some dogs with tick disease issues tend to get fistulas or skin diseases. Whenever there are a bunch of weird things going on, it's always good to eliminate this as a possibility.

There is an anti-inflammatory protocol, doxycycline and niacinamide, which I would try first before going for the steroids or cyclosporine. It can help with skin issues. I don't have a good link for it handy though. Most vets and/or derms do not think of using this first - they go first for the cyclosporine or pred, but there the doxy/nia protocol might help. The doxy will also help with the inflammation in the eye.

The compress - just soak a washrag in warm epsom salt water, wring it lightly, and then hold on the anal area where there are sores. It is very soothing and healing. Some owners will have their dogs sit in a bath and soak for a bit if it's real bad.

I'm glad that I can help, I only hope that it does actually help!

So far you have been on point, from the get-go you assumed staph and that was my doctors first impression on my boys second round of steroids. so b/c it took two visits for her, and one post for you, i'd say your as close to help as me and my boy can get, and I am hopeful she may comply/agree with your recommendations. From my family to you, thank you so much!

Would getting the two abx's you recommended handle our possible tick disease as well, or this something I need to address in a different manner aside from the two abx?

Also, I have been reiviewing dog foods during our down time bewteen posts. How does switching to blue buffalo sound? they have a chicen and brown rice for large breed, but i think you said switch the meat didnt you? Eukanuba GSD has chicken i think. Also, how is it grain free if it says whole grains, LOL? Please, and thank you for you kind help!:hug:

 

[GattiB]

should i begin giving him vitamin c or fish oil or whatever those are ... also i am going to get the destin ointment with zinc. i wanna buy the dog food today to try and start asap, but read below.

my girl thinks we should wait to switch his diet till monday when the docotr gives us her recommendation, but i am SO ready to switch but just cannot find anything at petsmart or petco.... i posted in nutrition in case they have any ideas, but i welcome anything.... my thoughts are blue buffalo fish and oatmeal, but it has whole grains like oatmeal and barley .. which i know LisaT said i should stray away from, or natures recipe grain free which has nothing that LisaT is saying to stay away from... Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

 

[GattiB]

You can try a food with some of those grains and see - be sure to stay away from wheat, corn, and sorghum. Buy smaller bags to see how well they are tolerated digestively.

I would not ask the vet for recommendations. The majority of vets are trained by companies like Euk or Science Diet and are not familiar with all the foods on the market.

I think vit C and fish oil are great additions. For the vit C, use either calcium ascorbate (ester C) or sodium ascorbate. For the fish oil, be sure to find a product where the combination of Dha and Epa are at least 50% of the product. Msm might help with the skin issues if your dog can handle it. Mine is sensitive to it, and it makes him pee

What is MSM?

Ok, will start on the small bags, and grab the vitamin c calcium or ascorbate and fish oil with 50% of EACH, or 50% total between the two of them ... any brands of either pill, or a location i can go to for safe and effective choices?

 

[GattiB]

The fish oil, at least 50% combined. Some products are as low as 20%. I typically buy online through vitacost or iherb (cheaper!), but any decent health foods store or section should have it. I use a couple different fish oilt. Twinlabs Omega 3 Mood is a good product, though may or may not be available locally.

MSM, if you google it, you'll see that it's high in sulphur, good for joints and skin.

What is the value of sulfur? Isn't that a bad chemical? Will do on the fish oil, and vita c, and small bag of food. How should I administer this combination of vitamins, considering he will be getting 3 benadryl before bed, and his Trithalmic/cortisone opthalmic ointment in his left eye... Thank you friend for your continued help!

Also this was a recommendation from the other "diet" thread, what do you think about her comment ... "Anal gland's can be infected with staph which will spread down the leg's and to other part's of the body.Your dog has the symptom's,if this is the case all the vet need's to do is empty the anal gland's, then insert Panolog ointment."

 

[GattiB]

THIS IS A REPEAT POST so you see the updated info.

What is the value of sulfur? Isn't that a bad chemical? Will do on the fish oil, and vita c, and small bag of food. How should I administer this combination of vitamins, considering he will be getting 3 benadryl before bed, and his Trithalmic/cortisone opthalmic ointment in his left eye... Thank you friend for your continued help!

Also this was a recommendation from the other "diet" thread, what do you think about her comment ... "Anal gland's can be infected with staph which will spread down the leg's and to other part's of the body.Your dog has the symptom's,if this is the case all the vet need's to do is empty the anal gland's, then insert Panolog ointment."

Lisa, another user recommended this for the sores on his leg, saying it kills staph, what are your thoughts before i go buy both... "Bicarbonate of soda mixed with warm water kill's staph on the skin, this would be very good to bathe his sore leg's"

Let me know thanks!

 

[GattiB]

I read that antimicrobial shampoos are good to use also.

Amazon.com: DermaPet DermaBenSs Benzoyl Peroxide Plus Shampoo for Pets (8-oz bottle): Kitchen & Dining

The two amazon reviews are good ones. I decided to take Logan to the vet soon, even though I don't have the money. I'm also going to see about grabbing some of that shampoo.

Keep me posted!

Good post, thank you so much Kurai. This being said, i researched staph infection, and this is exactly similar to the pictures i have seen. red spots, with matted fur and brown liquid like scabbing forming over it all. Any idea's on how to fix it before it gets bad to those points? Long term abx? along with shampoo or something... Would Lisa's dual abx therapy from above work for the infections, even from staph? Could there be damage inside of his body, which may be reprehendable since this has been going on so long?

God so many questions, this is like Lost, once i get one thing answered, i get 10 more. LOL. Thanks or your help, keep up the good work.

 

[GattiB]

Doxy was the only abx recommended?

you recommended doxy along with niacinamide or something along that line...

thank you achilles for your recommendation, I will leave that question out for my vet.

LisaT thank you so much, I have like a whole page of concerns to go to my vet with. HOPEFULLY resolution is on the horizon cause I can;t handle much more failures, its far to hurtful to keep trying so hard and continue to fail. Thank you every1 sincerely!

 

[GattiB]

so i took Gatti in for his check up, and talked about all of our possible theories from countless days of research (infected anal glands, staph infection needing lengthier abx therapy or tick disease).

she said it shouldn't be infected anal glands because there would be puss coming out of his rear and then that would cause infection on the exterior legs, which we haven't witnessed any puss... short time ago though we did notice after stools a lil very small amount of white fluid hanging out of his anus (sorry or the visuals) but that has ceased after all the meds and such.

the tick disease theory may be close because although his most recent heart worm test came negative, which also tests for tick diseases. it WAS a couple months prior to moving into our new mountainous area house, so that may have been a possibility, in turn he will be on cephalexin for 6 weeks (which should clear the possibility of staph infection too I imagine)

Just gave him his recently missed dose of heartguard, due to him being on the other steroids and abx at the time of his last due tablet (october 8th). Just to be curious what are some signs of heart worm ... we don't have many mosquitos but just for safety purposes...

Also, I might try to take him to the dermatologist after this cycle of abx is done, if the skin irritation comes back, that to me would be a sign of allergic reaction to the new enviroment, unfortunately I'll have to save up for that which is good we got abx for now. Is there really a "DOG" dermatologist, and how do i find one close?

The vet also gave us chlorhexadine(sp?) solution (the strong antiseptic used prior to surgery) to clean off the affected area's. I will begin the therapy tomorrow as the pharmacy didnt have all 250 tablets of cephalexine until the morning order. so i figure start it all at one time to ensure precision.

Should I be concerned the abx therapy is supposed to be 6 weeks, which would be 42 days, at 3 pills twice daily, 252 pills ... instead of the 250 prescribed on the rx. When I called the Dr back the receptionist said it shouldnt be a problem, not sure why I trusted that but i mean giving him 41 1/2 days of 750mg twice would still do the trick I presume?Anyone uncomfortable with that missing 2 pills at the end? Thanks for eveyrthing you guys I really appreciate all of your ongoing efforts, as does Gatti (my boy(aka:my dog))

 

[GattiB]

I wouldn't be concerned with the two pills.

Ceph can be hard on some dog's systems. I would make sure to give probiotics separated from the abx by a good couple of hours.

My boy sees a K9 Derm for his fistula, found her on the fistula list, but it turns out all the vets around here know her. You can ask your local vet perhaps? If you're near a university, they typically have them too, although I much prefer the specialists around here than our local teaching hospital.

Oh, and your vet is wrong about an infected gland being ***** and messy. My boy had an infected gland years ago and it was not like that.

what are probiotics??? She only gave me ceph.

Now he is getting aa green slim like mucus around his poops, not all over it, but on most of it... is this good, is it like an infection dying and exiting through its only exit??? He started this only maybe 8 hours after the meds ...

about the infected gland, I had them empty the anal glands after telling her about the possibility but they said there was hardly anything in there (just emptied it like a month ago) .. so what else should i do to research/examine that?

 

[GattiB]

I told you I'd keep you posted, so I'll let you know what's going on with my dog.

I took him to the vet about 3 days ago. He said Logan had a skin infection (shocker). He prescribed antibiotics, about 20 days worth, and steroids again. He said that if he scratches while on the medication it's an allergy that caused it, but if he doesn't then no allergy. He also said that Logan just might be prone to skin infections and that considering he's still pretty young, he'll probably grow out of it.

Weird.

His skin is looking a lot better. He is NOT scratching anymore and I used that benzoyle (sp?) peroxide shampoo. I thought it would dry out his skin, but it didn't. I just washed him with his normal doggy shampoo first, and then used his dog conditioner after the medicated shampoo. He smells good AND his coat is very soft. <3

Thank you so much man! Good luck on your new set of abx, n steroids. I hope they work better for you guys. The real worry is after the meds but god your dog sounds 200% better, congratulations!

Its funny i brought this recommendation cause you told me a while bak and she didn't wanna dry him out but now she told us she could prescribe a shampoo that has that in it so i gotta see where that goes. Thank you i really appreciate your info, take care my friend!