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Discussion Starter #1
to stop membership going to just the TD the club had to do something to survive and justify locking up much contested public space - they allowed BC's in to do the BH, these dogs are all old campainers that have run out of titles to get thru the AKC and frankly most get the BH in no time and look a whole lot smarter than the GSD's. they also are allowed to get a tracking title which they all get easy. most already have tracking titles.

the handlers only do it cos they want to keep training and getting titles just for titles sake.

are these BH and tracking leg legitimate titles recognised by the world schuts peeps (if there is such a thing) or just bits of paper printed out by the club??

sadly the club has mals doing actuall schuts titles, and mainly BC, labs....all over the field, the only gsd you really see are show dogs getting a breed survey on the schuts field cos i guess it makes there lame breed survey which any mutt from the pound could pass in terms of the temp test "feel" more german and real.

i actually got asked back to join but my ego and pride got in the way cos they shunned my puppy.

so sad when it becomes elitism versus survival and elitism loses, sad for the elitists that is.
 

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Where I am, any dog that can do the sport can be in the sport. There were 4 Rottweilers there the day I went. Dalmatians would be really good at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
obviously nobody is going to take an adult bc/lab that and start it in protection work so they just "title" in BH and tracking, and i meant to say do all the obed pahse from 1 to 3. actually on trial daysas well.

i might add and they get judged and points from a regular schuts judge.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
makes sense, i think it should actually be harder and less precision focussed, like actually take yr dog out in a busy public area with real vehicle traffic and random dogs and people everywhere. too much liability i guess.

if it was possible i would love to be internetlly assessed in the MH? that seems like a more legit temp test than the BH imo.
 

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I know SO many breeds that have BH's. Frankly, I am happy to see anyone working any dog in any sport. SchH is hard, takes a lot of work, commitment, and time. I am impressed with a title, even if it is "only" a BH lol. Our club has rotties, GSDs, a pit bull, and a boxer(Rotties are all titled, some all the way to SchH 3, GSD-BH, Boxer-BH, Pit Bull-Just joined). They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I love seeing different breeds and how they act. My TD is of the mindset-if the dog can do the work and likes it-they aren't going to get turned away. I know a lot of clubs aren't like that, and are more "purests," meh...whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
i was recently dissapointed to learn that some euro sports only allow certain breeds or registries to compete - i thought these orgs just had the best dogs just cos they had the best dogs, when you lock a dog out cos of breed/papers or who it is registered with is a big negative for working dogs.

we have stock dog trials here in open country, real tough challenges with big prize money at stake, best dog wins no matter what breed, nobody even asks what breed yr dog is, a stupid question really to true working dog folks.

thats true competition which makes breeders breed better not breeding cos pedigree papers are a form of currency.

like asians that dominated martial arts by not allowing ****** to compete, a frind of mine finally got into a big title match and beat the unbeatable champ, they did not like it but in the end they raised their own standards to become competitive again, some lesson in their for the dog world.
 

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Schutzhund is open to all breeds, registered and not-registered. I started with my shelter mixed breed rescue. Got me hooked on training and interested in getting a working line GSD.
 

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I really don't understand the issue with a lab or bc getting a bh, ob, or tracking title? Anyone can enter a trial.........bh is pass or fail. Something any breed should be able to do! Protection work is another story...
 

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Schutzhund is open to all breeds, registered and not-registered. I started with my shelter mixed breed rescue. Got me hooked on training and interested in getting a working line GSD.
Our club is the same - we welcome anyone with a dog able to do the work and those who was dedicated to the sport and club.

We currently have 1 ACD training with us and he has probably more drive than most of our GSD's! He's fun to watch work although he has yet to do any C phase work but will probably start that this fall.
 

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I really don't understand the issue with a lab or bc getting a bh, ob, or tracking title? Anyone can enter a trial.........bh is pass or fail. Something any breed should be able to do! Protection work is another story...
Agree.
 

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Seriously, why on earth would that be bad?

The more people get involved in sports, the better-known those sports become. The better-known they become, the more people get involved. It's a really positive cycle if you can get it started.

I would think this would be especially true for the protection sports, which often have to fight quite a few negative stigmas in public perception. Having more people, and more dogs of different breeds, involved in and representing those sports can only be a good thing.
 

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Frankly, I am happy to see anyone working any dog in any sport.
Agree!

I just adopted a mixed breed dog and plan on taking her along to my club to see if she can do any of the phases. My dog, my time, my money....as long as the club is open to other breeds then who cares?
 

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x11, surely you've seen the wonderful old video of Mr. Murphy, the JRT? Surely in your view the sport has a place for a joyful little munchkin like Mr. Murphy, doesn't it?


 

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OMG terriers are a trip! They crack me up. It's really too bad they aren't bigger--they are such scrappy little monsters!! Although if they were bigger we'd all be in BIG trouble!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ok i guess i was a bit worried by the other breeds appearing in larger numbers than the breed the sport/test was designed for in that club. i am not in it at all so not really my problem.

democracy rules, the more the merrier i guess, so be it.
 

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Oh, now that's an interesting thread. Thank you for bringing it up -- I hadn't seen that one before and probably never would have found it without the link.

I haven't read through the whole thing yet (only on page 7 -- but I'll finish it!) but I'm gonna stick by what I said earlier: more participation can only be a good thing. And maybe these points were already made in that original thread, since there are almost 20 pages left for me to read there, but still:

-- it's tough to get new people hooked on a sport, or the dogs who are supposed to be good at that sport, if they aren't allowed to try it with the dogs they currently have. More than likely, they'll just go "pfft" and do another sport that's more inclusionary;

-- if the dogs for whom the sport was originally intended are indeed the best at it, then (a) they should be able to prove it on a fair field open to all competitors, and shouldn't need protectionism to look good; and (b) if and when they do beat all comers, the people who are seriously hooked on that sport tend to get one of those dogs as their next competition dog (see also: border collies in agility, golden retrievers and Shelties in obedience, border-staffies in flyball);

-- apparently there's a problem with Schutzhund clubs folding for lack of interest/attendance, so if this helps get their membership up, hooray for them;

-- as I said earlier, protection sports can have a negative image in some quarters. The more people who do them (and learn about them, and develop firsthand experience with them and the dogs who participate), and the more non-traditional breeds show in them, the more that negative image is likely to be countered by better public perceptions.

Now, obviously that argument is considerably less convincing if you view Schutzhund as a breed worthiness test rather than a sport, but from what I've seen on this board, nobody seems to think it's serving a valuable purpose as a breed worthiness test anymore. Either the title doesn't tell you enough about the dog, or the test has been watered down such that it's not a sufficient test of the dog's nerve, or it's pushing the breed toward flashier Malinois-style performances, or some other flaw... but I don't think I've seen anyone defending the current state of Schutzhund as a valid test of breed worthiness in the U.S.

So it's a sport. And if it's a sport, the sport rationales apply, and more participation is a very good thing.
 
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