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I did schutzhund with Star. She did pass her BH, but forging (wanting to be out ahead) was a constant problem with her!
I never did cure her of it completely - it was part of her nature. When we were walking off leash, she'd always be at least 10 or 15 feet ahead of me, while Eska would either be at my side, or slightly behind.

And if she knew you wanted to put her back on the leash, she'd always walk faster. She was very deaf the last two years of her life, but I sometimes wondered just how much was deafness and how much was that stubborn streak that was so much a part of her!
 

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What I am going to say is probably going to be very unpopular but I would NEVER allow a dog that bit me or anyone else with that kind of aggression to remain in my home. Do you have kids? Do kids every visit you? Does anyone elderly ever visit you? You have a responsibility to every person that comes in contact with your dog. Yes, they are family members but they are animals. People come first. If you have the money, have the dog evaluated by a trainer that your vet recommends but if the dog shows any sign of aggression again, that would be it. Yes, it would hurt to put your dog down but it would hurt a whole lot more if he harmed someone, especially a child.
 

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"That stuff with Cesar, sigh, the dog would bite, and they knew that, and doing a Cesar-crap-training, yeah it can work IF and only if you are already a seasoned dog trainer. Half the crap that guy does, he doesn't even know why or what he is doing until after he did it, then he tells you why he did it after the fact, while he is figuring out what just happened."

Cesar stole most of what he does from Barbara Woodhouse and never gives her credit.
Barbara Woodhouse? is she the "Walkies!!!" lady? I used to like her, saw her on TV when I was a kid. Then I read her book while my dad was getting an MRI. I wasn't impressed. I think we are talking about the same lady. I can see how Cesar got a lot of his stuff from her.
 

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Yes, that's her! Used to have her book. She used to breed great Danes, so she wasn't exactly a lap dog trainer that didn't know how to train strong dogs.

There are some things Cesar does that I really like - he reminds people a tired dog is a happy, calm dog, and that dogs need rules, boundaries and limitations.

And his training methods have gotten rid of the more extreme stuff over the years.

In one of his books, he interviews a number of famous trainers, and my takeaway from that was there is NO one right way to train. The person who trains dogs for movies has to use totally different methods than the one doing schutzhund or family pet training. So, he doesn't insist 'it's my way or you're doing it all wrong!'
 

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Discussion Starter · #226 ·
What I am going to say is probably going to be very unpopular but I would NEVER allow a dog that bit me or anyone else with that kind of aggression to remain in my home. Do you have kids? Do kids every visit you? Does anyone elderly ever visit you? You have a responsibility to every person that comes in contact with your dog. Yes, they are family members but they are animals. People come first. If you have the money, have the dog evaluated by a trainer that your vet recommends but if the dog shows any sign of aggression again, that would be it. Yes, it would hurt to put your dog down but it would hurt a whole lot more if he harmed someone, especially a child.
No, there are no children in our home. There have been no children or elderly people visiting us since before covid. Blue was a puppy then and not aggressive. When we invite anyone into our home both dogs are put in the backyard where they are secure. Blue is also wearing a muzzle most of the time except of course when he's eating and when he's sleeping, and he sleeps alone now. When he goes anywhere with us my husband is in control of him. He has a harness on and a muzzle. Plus my husband is a very big and strong man. Blue listens to him.
We are having him evaluated and we are taking him to a trainer as soon as we can get in. Until then we are taking every precaution necessary to keep everyone else safe.
We strongly believe that he can be helped. He will be away from us for 3-4 weeks getting the help he needs. Then we will be trained on how to properly handle him. My husband is great with him, but obviously I'm doing something wrong. I pray that this works. If not, then yes, we will have to put him down.
Thanks for your concern.
 

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I hope you're able to get in with a good trainer soon!

Last night I was reading an article about how, due to the flurry of "pandemic pup" adoptions by first-time owners, dog trainers are now FLOODED with lots of dogs with serious behavioral issues. Some of the trainers are booked out to the fall. Many of these dogs did not get out and about to meet people/other dogs, plus their owners are leaving them home alone more now, so it's stressful for everyone. Anyway, hope you're able to get training soon - (just don't be shocked if there is a long wait...)
 

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Separation anxiety will be a large issue when people start going back to work. My reactive puppy at least gets “alone” time just for that reason. That would be a nightmare for us on top of the reactivity. Training is definitely booked out quite far now.
 

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Everyone who has a COVID puppy should by now be leaving the house for hours at a time to ready the dog for full time vacancy when people return to work full time. I work from home full time and still trained my dogs to be alone for escalating 3-4 hours at a time with the run of the house from5-6-7 months on.

There's no excuse for separation anxiety issues just blaming COVID any more....
 

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Discussion Starter · #230 ·
We've talked about that. Unfortunately, you're right. We may have a long wait. For that reason, we're going to start doing some training ourselves. I have a hard time reading Blue's body language. Did you know that if a dog lies on his back, he isn't necessarily asking for a belly rub? He may be anxious and fearful. This was the exact situation just before Blue bit me the last time.
Thanks for sharing. Hopefully we'll get in sooner than we hope.
 

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No, there are no children in our home. There have been no children or elderly people visiting us since before covid. Blue was a puppy then and not aggressive. When we invite anyone into our home both dogs are put in the backyard where they are secure. Blue is also wearing a muzzle most of the time except of course when he's eating and when he's sleeping, and he sleeps alone now. When he goes anywhere with us my husband is in control of him. He has a harness on and a muzzle. Plus my husband is a very big and strong man. Blue listens to him.
We are having him evaluated and we are taking him to a trainer as soon as we can get in. Until then we are taking every precaution necessary to keep everyone else safe.
We strongly believe that he can be helped. He will be away from us for 3-4 weeks getting the help he needs. Then we will be trained on how to properly handle him. My husband is great with him, but obviously I'm doing something wrong. I pray that this works. If not, then yes, we will have to put him down.
Thanks for your concern.
I hate to say this but he is not a 3-4 week dog. He is more like an 8 week dog. And trainer will need 1-2 weeks to establish a relationship with your dog before training and turning this dog around even begins. In fact, a good trainer would not even talk a time frame in my opinion.
 

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We've talked about that. Unfortunately, you're right. We may have a long wait. For that reason, we're going to start doing some training ourselves. I have a hard time reading Blue's body language. Did you know that if a dog lies on his back, he isn't necessarily asking for a belly rub? He may be anxious and fearful. This was the exact situation just before Blue bit me the last time.
Thanks for sharing. Hopefully we'll get in sooner than we hope.
This book should come with all puppies,shelter dogs... veterinarians should sell this at their checkouts. Then, people would have far fewer problems.

 

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These are also very eye-opening.


 

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Yes, that's her! Used to have her book. She used to breed great Danes, so she wasn't exactly a lap dog trainer that didn't know how to train strong dogs.

There are some things Cesar does that I really like - he reminds people a tired dog is a happy, calm dog, and that dogs need rules, boundaries and limitations.

And his training methods have gotten rid of the more extreme stuff over the years.

In one of his books, he interviews a number of famous trainers, and my takeaway from that was there is NO one right way to train. The person who trains dogs for movies has to use totally different methods than the one doing schutzhund or family pet training. So, he doesn't insist 'it's my way or you're doing it all wrong!'

I have the book by cesar, Cesar's Way, I have the book by Barbara Woodhouse if it didn't get waterlogged and tossed when my book case was the recipient of roof-water. I read that. I have and read Victoria Stillwell's book. And Ian Whatever-his-name is, Dunbar? The monks of New skete, several of theirs. And more. I have decided that I do everything wrong for all the wrong reasons, and somehow it works for me.

I don't subscribe to stuff like making a dog wait for food, to teach them self control, or that a tired dog is a good dog. I have a dozen dogs and they do not get walked every week, every month much less every day. In fact, I might get my fat behind out with a dog once a month, if I am doing good, and Covid has been just a good excuse not to sign up for classes. When I DID take them to classes, they got worked, 1 hour per week (in class) for six weeks in a row, and that is 90% better than I do when I haven't paid for a class, so they get a ton out of it.

On the fourth of July, I took three dogs to my friends house about 2 hours away. I took Columbo who will be 1 in October, Vera who will be 2 in September, and Karma who turned 8 in January. Karma has probably been to classes in her first year. But as she is one of my dams, she is a favorite. In fact, she had her last litter shortly after her eighth birthday, and the folks that came to take a pup, several of them aske me for her. I told my sister that, in another 8 years, her boy will be awesome like her too.

So it is not impressive that Karma lay down near me where I was seated, outside talking to my friend. What is impressive is that both Columbo (who is not my breeding) and Vera, who is, were also lying quietly near us with her shepherds. I was there about 3 hours and the entire time, all the critters were calm, were playing, were good, were milling around my friend's grand-babies near the pool, and none of them plowed into any of the kids or knocked them into the pool. They were all loose. I didn't have a death grip on any one so they wouldn't eat a baby or a man with a ball cap or an elderly person, or fill in the blank.

I am not a dog whisperer. I have learned some stuff over the years and I have some really nice dogs. Part of that is how I raise and keep them (I do everything wrong) and part of that is in them. Some folks do have trouble with raising my dogs. Not everyone, just I think people new to the breed have to learn the hard way on their first shepherd. You can't get it out of books or out of videos or out of conversations on line. You have to get it by trial and error with the dog you have. The answer is not to avoid first time owners. Lots of people do, and maybe people who are breeding for super hard dogs, with high drives and energy should avoid newcomers to working dog breeds. But for the vast majority of us (breeders), avoiding first time owners is the lazy option, and may even suggest temperament issues in your lines. We have a breed that is popular and attractive for a lot of reasons, and if decent breeders will not sell to new owners, they will get dogs from crappy breeders, and that is a shame. Our dogs can be a first dog for people. And sometimes mistakes are made and dogs will need to be rehomed or just returned to the breeder. But unless we grew up with the breed, we were all newbies once, and even if we did grow up with the breed, we have all had that first dog that we purchased, and raised and trained ourselves. If we have stuck with this breed, and had more than one, we've probably had easier dogs and tougher dogs. The easy ones don't make us grow. We learn the most from the ones that had us tearing our hair out (Frodo) or crying our eyes out (Arwen) or both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #235 ·
This book should come with all puppies,shelter dogs... veterinarians should sell this at their checkouts. Then, people would have far fewer problems.

Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #236 ·
Can someone please direct me as to where I could find information to ask the vet about what tests should be run on Blue. I know the vet should know this but I don't want them to miss anything. I've been searching through this forum and Google and haven't found what I need. I finally ended up on a "ask the vet website" but I don't want to give them my credit card. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.
 

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This last link may be the most valuable. If you contact Dr. Jean Dodds, she can guide you through testing. Her prices are quite good but you can also do through your vet. If you email her, she will respond personally.

 

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I don't subscribe to stuff like making a dog wait for food, to teach them self control, or that a tired dog is a good dog. I have a dozen dogs and they do not get walked every week, every month much less every day. In fact, I might get my fat behind out with a dog once a month, if I am doing good, and Covid has been just a good excuse not to sign up for classes. When I DID take them to classes, they got worked, 1 hour per week (in class) for six weeks in a row, and that is 90% better than I do when I haven't paid for a class, so they get a ton out of it.
So why have dogs if you’re to lazy to do anything with them? This is a working breed, or at least should be. I can’t imagine owning any dog and only working with them or walking them once a week. What a pathetic life for them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #239 ·


This last link may be the most valuable. If you contact Dr. Jean Dodds, she can guide you through testing. Her prices are quite good but you can also do through your vet. If you email her, she will respond personally.



This last link may be the most valuable. If you contact Dr. Jean Dodds, she can guide you through testing. Her prices are quite good but you can also do through your vet. If you email her, she will respond personally.

Thank you! Do I just call the Sport Dog Training Center and ask for Dr. Dodds?
 
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