German Shepherds Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven't been on this forum since 2015....
I was referred here by another GSD owner.
I adopted Jetta on July 6, 2015 from a rescue that apparently is now gone or changed their name (it was Von Blue Rescues). She is a black German Shepherd. She is a really good dog, though still quite a spaz for almost 5 years old (we placed her birthday in February 2015). The only complaint or issue I am having her she occasionally has accidents in the house, poop accidents. My vet has found no parasites, she has no infection or illness so I am left banging my head against the wall.

Maybe it has something to do with her past**I wasn't given a ton of details but I'll give you what I do know.

1. I'm assuming Jetta came from a backyard breeder since most AKC breeders (the reputable ones at least) have you sign contracts that if you can't keep the dog, you bring them back blah blah blah.*
2. I assume the woman bought Jetta at 8 weeks or so from whoever bred her parents.
3. Jetta was kept outside in a kennel with two large mastiffs pretty much from that point to when the woman finally surrendered her to the Von Blue Rescue that I adopted her from.*
4. Those two beasts denied her food constantly, and of course the woman had no reason to potty train if she was leaving the dogs outside*
5. The woman surrendered Jetta around June 2015, claiming she was only 4 months old which would have made her only 10-15 lbs underweight (she was around 28 lbs)
6. I took her to my vet and looking at her teeth, my vet immediately placed her closer to 7 months old which made her 20-25 lbs underweight.*

Pretty much from day one it was hard potty training her, both dogs were brought to the shop with us and if I forgot to take them out before going anywhere to run errands or get food or something, I'd come back to dog **** in the office. Sometimes even if I was sitting at my desk, it was almost like she didn't know how to inform me she had to go, she just went and found a spot and of course felt guilty afterwards. Eventually she got better and I made a stronger schedule in taking them out more often and before I left or anything.

Then it was about 2 years ago that DH said I had to start leaving them at home because Jetta was scaring our machine division customers, and he also felt it was very professional to have them here, especially with all the dog hair.

Since then, her accidents would happen about every 3-6 weeks apart and always started out solid and eventually to mush.
Maybe someone with experience of dogs that were neglected early on would see something in this, something I may be missing?

Now thankfully, we'll soon be out there on the property (it'll be another month or so) and I can once again have her around me and keep an eye on her and let her and Rocky go out and enjoy the weather and be outside. Right now though, I'll be going home at noon each day to take them out just to be sure she doesn't have an incident.

This was the pic I saw on the rescue site.


This is her now


As far as I know, she most likely will never have an undercoat.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,268 Posts
She's a pretty girl! On the house training, I wouldn't be too concerned with her past except that when you first got her this behavior was reasonable given she was always outside. But you've had her now for years. To get her to stop pooping in the house keep her tethered to you for awhile and show her what you want. It seems like she just doesn't understand. Teach her to ask you to go outside.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FreeSoul1987

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
She's a pretty girl! On the house training, I wouldn't be too concerned with her past except that when you first got her this behavior was reasonable given she was always outside. But you've had her now for years. To get her to stop pooping in the house keep her tethered to you for awhile and show her what you want. It seems like she just doesn't understand. Teach her to ask you to go outside.
Lol when home, I almost don't need tethering, she is literally attached at my hip :laugh2: if I sit somewhere, she will lie down at my feet, if I get up and go to another room, she gets up and follows. If I'm gone, she is in her crate and rarely gets out. But we'll soon be out at the house 24/7 so I will have her with me all the time, not sure if she has separation anxiety or something that just shows up every couple of weeks or so because this isn't constant which is confusing. She'll go weeks without any accidents or issue, and then suddenly it's like she found a laxative somewhere....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,268 Posts
I thought about that right after I posted, and was going to ask if when she does have accidents her poop is soft. It could be something she eats that doesn't agree with her and she can't help it...

I bought a camper and took the dog with me camping shortly thereafter. She got into something that gave her the runs, and started whining at the door at 2am. I thought it must be a critter outside she was hearing and wasn't about to have her barking and waking up the other folks out there, so I shushed her. But she quieted for just a minute or two and went back to whining at the door, so I decided to get up and check. Before I could get shoes on, she could hold it no longer - my fault!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,597 Posts
I thought about that right after I posted, and was going to ask if when she does have accidents her poop is soft. It could be something she eats that doesn't agree with her and she can't help it...

I bought a camper and took the dog with me camping shortly thereafter. She got into something that gave her the runs, and started whining at the door at 2am. I thought it must be a critter outside she was hearing and wasn't about to have her barking and waking up the other folks out there, so I shushed her. But she quieted for just a minute or two and went back to whining at the door, so I decided to get up and check. Before I could get shoes on, she could hold it no longer - my fault!
Something similar happened the other night with one of the dogs but I am better trained than you are and was able to save the day! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: tim_s_adams

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I thought about that right after I posted, and was going to ask if when she does have accidents her poop is soft. It could be something she eats that doesn't agree with her and she can't help it...

I bought a camper and took the dog with me camping shortly thereafter. She got into something that gave her the runs, and started whining at the door at 2am. I thought it must be a critter outside she was hearing and wasn't about to have her barking and waking up the other folks out there, so I shushed her. But she quieted for just a minute or two and went back to whining at the door, so I decided to get up and check. Before I could get shoes on, she could hold it no longer - my fault!
Unfortunately her accidents are only when nobody is home, and almost always less than a half hour before I get home (yeah, through the plastic I can feel the warmth). And the accidents are always weeks apart so I'm not sure if she is following my other dog (Rocky who is a Heeler/Lab mix) and trying the mushrooms he loves eating, they have no effect on him but they might have a bad effect on her. Or she is finding cat poop.... I just don't know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,183 Posts
Heartworm meds or flea/tick meds. My girl gets icky poops for the few days following her heartworm treatment. She doesn't have accidents but it definitely effects her GI tract.

I would also discourage any dog from eating wild mushrooms. Many are toxic. Some mildly others not so much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Dogs don’t feel guilty for eliminating indoors. They’re reacting to their human’s response to finding the feces (or urine) inside: anger, disappointment, whatever.

Your response should be an upbeat “whoops! That’s ok!” Then clean it up *after* you calmly put the dog somewhere else with a chew or toy.

Your dog’s past might be relevant because many many owners punish eliminating indoors even though it’s never the dog’s fault. The dog learns, “my people hate my poop” so they’ll wait to go until you’re out of the area, or they’ll go where you won’t find it, or a number of other scenarios.

(I always praise m dogs for pottying in front of me, even my seniors that I’ve had all their lives. They think I think their poop is magical the way I celebrate it then grab it ASAP.)

Next, crate your dog. Crating gives some much needed structure. Very few dogs will eliminate in their crates, especially German Shepherds Take her out of the crate, take her outside morning, midday, evening, any other time she can’t be supervised.

She’ll learn the routine and after a while (months, maybe a year or more. Don’t rush it), you can withdraw the crate if you wish. You may see that your dog likes the routine and comfort of a crate though.

If you do both of these things, you should be ok, presuming your vet check comes back clear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
I would also discourage any dog from eating wild mushrooms. Many are toxic. Some mildly others not so much.
Yes, many wild mushrooms cause GI upset. Some cause liver and kidney failure. Some have severe neurological effects. Death is certainly not outside of the realm of possibility, often after prolonged (and expensive) veterinary care and hospitalization.

Dogs that eat wild mushrooms should be kept indoors or leashed and closely supervised, and muzzled if you can’t control their grazing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Dogs don’t feel guilty for eliminating indoors. They’re reacting to their human’s response to finding the feces (or urine) inside: anger, disappointment, whatever.

Your response should be an upbeat “whoops! That’s ok!” Then clean it up *after* you calmly put the dog somewhere else with a chew or toy.

Your dog’s past might be relevant because many many owners punish eliminating indoors even though it’s never the dog’s fault. The dog learns, “my people hate my poop” so they’ll wait to go until you’re out of the area, or they’ll go where you won’t find it, or a number of other scenarios.

(I always praise m dogs for pottying in front of me, even my seniors that I’ve had all their lives. They think I think their poop is magical the way I celebrate it then grab it ASAP.)

Next, crate your dog. Crating gives some much needed structure. Very few dogs will eliminate in their crates, especially German Shepherds Take her out of the crate, take her outside morning, midday, evening, any other time she can’t be supervised.

She’ll learn the routine and after a while (months, maybe a year or more. Don’t rush it), you can withdraw the crate if you wish. You may see that your dog likes the routine and comfort of a crate though.

If you do both of these things, you should be ok, presuming your vet check comes back clear.

She's had a crate since the 3rd month we had her............. and she did not react to any anger or whatever the first time she had an accident because I walked in and she was already hiding, completely unlike her when I return, which is normally running up to me with excitement. And she will have accidents in her crate, not this last time but 3 weeks ago after 6 weeks of no accidents I came home to it in the living room, put her outside, cleaned it up and had to put her in her crate cause I had to rush to the store. Came home and she had pooped runny mucus poop in her crate. The vet checked her out, nothing, no parasites at that time.
As far as mushrooms, I'm not sure because she never shows interest in them when I'm with her out. Rocky on the other hand, loves them and will find them on our property and eat them. Jetta won't normally even leave the small area in front of our house (we have 5 acres of land) unless she chases an animal off the property but even then she is back up on the porch in a flash. Even if our Heeler/Lab mix goes wandering off to the back of the property or in other neighbors' yards to visit someone, Jetta immediately retreats to the porch and waits.

I won't say this too many more times
Again this isn't constant, isn't even twice a week, it isn't even once a week. She'll be doing great and everything for like 6 weeks or even 3 months without issue and then all of a sudden have an accident which starts out solid and then once she's outside it slowly turns to mush, as if she had a laxative. It is always within a half hour or so before I get home, as if she's tried to hold herself but just can't anymore. It is always near the front door that she is taken out, not somewhere hidden or that I can't see it but right out in the open in the living room near the front door. And she is hiding in the hallway, whereas when she doesn't have an accident she is normally passed out in her crate or at the door excited to see me home.
The woman who bought her from the "breeder" put her outside in a large kennel with two mastiffs for the first 3-4 months from when she bought her (I'm assuming at 8-10 weeks old), she was never an indoor dog before I adopted her so she learned to just poop and pee in her living quarters outside. She was constantly denied food by the other dogs and was severely underweight when surrendered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Dogs don’t feel guilty for eliminating indoors. They’re reacting to their human’s response to finding the feces (or urine) inside: anger, disappointment, whatever.
Sorry, I have to disagree with this comment. Maybe in your experience they don't feel "guilty." My experience...my first dog knew when he did "wrong." He would hang his head low and you could see it on his face. I never once beat him or got mad at him or anything when he did it in the house. In his whole life he only pooped in the house a handful of times including his puppy days. I knew it was my fault for not getting home quick enough or not taking him out soon enough or not recognizing the signs of an upset stomach, etc. So I never blamed him or was upset at him. It was my fault. He was an EPI dog too; so, he had bouts of diarrhea that he couldn't control. It was only in his last 2 months of his life when he had cancer and a weakened back legs that he had bowel incontinence. He would poop when he was sleeping or poop when he was in the middle of eating, poop in the car, etc. And every time, you could see his demeaner change. He knew. Maybe I don't know what the correct term is...either he felt guilty, or bad, or upset, or embarrassed, or whatever, but he felt something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,183 Posts
Since it seems to be random and the poop accident happens by the door that leads to where you dog goes out to potty I would say that it is a random GI upset by a treat or table scraps if you feed them. The other possibility is stress colitis. It's possible something happens when you are not home. Solicitor knocks on the door, loud unfamiliar noise, etc. that is stressing the dog causing GI upset. Dog goes to door, you're not home and well it happens.

Off topic but to those who comment that dogs don't feel guilt I call BS. I believe that dogs know when they have done what they shouldn't often. As humans we use the term "feels guilty" because that is a term we have as reference to frame the demeanor we see in our dog in such circumstances. If dogs didn't have some sense of what humans term as right and wrong behaviors or memories other than in the moment as some like to profess then we wouldn't be able to train them in the ways we do,and have bonds with them the way we do. Dogs have amazing ability to remember. They find there way home when lost, they remember that it was a man or woman that mistreated them. They remember their owners that have treated them well and loved them. It's said how smart they are and then try to say they don't feel some sort of emotion. I strongly disagree.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top