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Discussion Starter #1
Hello! I will start off by saying I am aware my boy is a mish mash of sorts but I was purely curious if anyone recognized any of the names or had any feedback on him. He just turned a year old in June, he’s a wonderful dog. Smart, willing to please, affectionate and playful. He is great in public and new situations, we are attending weekly agility classes and I’m hoping to enter him in a UKC conformation show next month.

Thank you in advance :)

5 generation long pedigree for Rio De Dinero
 

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I can't help you with pedigree, but what a handsome face. He sounds like a real sweetheart.
 

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If you go back into the 5th generation on the dam's side you see some well known dogs, a couple in the 4th too. It can be interesting to go back from them and see different names that pop up in pedigree discussions. Some of them you can find video. I know on the Sire's side, Vegas is pretty well known.
 

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The sire's side is mostly German show line, with some very well known dogs, if you go back 3 or 4 generations. Vegas who was 2x VA1 (German sieger, the highest placing for German show lines shows up twice in the 3rd and 4th generation

Dam's side is mostly working line, but with American showline dogs on the bottom (dam's side of pedigree).

He is a very handsome boy, with good structure. Let's hope some of those good genes from way back overcome the more recent generations of pet breeding!
 

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Thank you so much everyone for the compliments and insight! Rio is my first GSD, and was a surprise for me. One day after I got home from work, my boyfriend told me to get in the the truck and that he was taking me somewhere. About 20 min later we pulled into a drive greeted by two beautiful shepherds, with a yard full of romping nine week old puppies. Excited doesn’t even begin to describe how I felt! All of the pups were colored the same, so I spent some time interacting with them all to make sure I made the right choice. Rio came up to me, and happily plopped down on my foot and rolled over wanting belly rubs. While the other pups were more rambunctious, he would calmly observe. Needless to say, I didn’t know anything about lines and he is also my first AKC dog. I am so so happy with him and love him so much, and he absolutely adores me.

I am super stoked to begin exhibiting with him in dog sports, and just enjoy having him in my life.
 

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Dad is European show lines with some rather well known dogs, males mostly, in the 5th and, a few, in the 4th generations. Mom is a mishmash of lines. Czech, WGWL and then some "who knows what" AKC lines. Some of the Czech and WGWL are good dogs back a ways (4th and 5th generation).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you all for comments, I am very appreciative! I have a question and it is purely out of curiosity as I have zero intentions or interest of becoming involved in breeding. But for the sake of a rhetorical situation, would a dog like mine who is essentially a “purebred mutt” ever be able to prove himself worthy of a breeding program? Would a dog who has attained championship title(s) and ticks the marks in temperament and health testing be valued as such despite questionable lineage?
 

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Due to his questionable lineage, you'd have a hard time finding good homes for the pups. You could probably get pet price for them on Craiglist, which is NOT how you get good homes for puppies!

A dog that hasn't been bred with a purpose, and a thorough knowledge of its ancestors and their strengths and weaknesses is not going to breed true. The quality of the puppies won't be consistent.

So, in a nutshell...no.
 

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Thank you for an honest opinion, again I am not interested in bringing more dogs into the world but just thought I’d ask as food for thought. I would worry way too much about where they would end up! Even if I was a legit breeder with all the tokens to back it up and carefully screened the buyers. The lady that we got Rio from I occasionally update - out of a litter of 9 I am the only person that has bothered to contact her. But I honestly don’t think she cares either way. I couldn’t be like that.
 

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Believe me, I know how tempting it can be!

I had a GSD rescue that was the smartest darn dog I've ever owned. Show him something 2 or 3 times, and he had it down cold. I am NOT exaggerating - if you want details ask.

Not only that, his loyalty to me was awesome, his temperament wonderful. I had his hips x-rayed, and the vet said they were the best set of hips he'd seen in a long time, though I never bothered submitting them to OFA. I trained him to be my first Hearing Ear dog as I am so deaf I can't hear much of anything once I take my hearing aids off at night.

Just one story: he was scared of water, because he'd been knocked off the end of the dock into deep water by another dog when he was a pup.

I tried to get him over his fear by taking him far enough out into the lake that he had to swim just a few strokes, then taking him back to shore, and praising him. He was wearing a life vest for safety, but still, he just totally panicked.

After only 2 tries, I gave up, took the leash off, and went for a swim myself, leaving him on the shore. I swam to the edge of the cottage property, then turned to swim back.

As I turned, I saw he was in the water, swimming towards me. I firmly believe that his concern and love for me overcame his fear. We swam back to the dock together, then I praised him to the skies, took him up to the cottage and rewarded him with a piece of leftover steak!

He overcame his fear enough that he'd play in the shallows with my other GSD, but if the toy/stick went far enough out that he had to swim, he'd let my female retrieve it!

If I hadn't had him neutered at the age of 3, due to a prostate infection, I would have been REALLY tempted to get some pups from him.
 

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I was tempted once when I had the most well behaved, solid temperament Rottweiler. This guy was all muscle, had great energy and drive, and was sociable to both dogs and strangers. Just a happy go lucky guy while off, and gave 100% when on. Nothing phased him. Barking aggressive dogs, screaming and running children, cats, he took it all in stride. He also had great hip and elbows. People would ask me to stud him out to their females, but I’ll be honest, I was never impressed with females they wanted to stud him to. Looking back on it now, I’m so so glad I didn’t. There are enough BYB’s out there, no need to add to the problem unless you’re certain both the sire and dam are bullet proof, and even after more than 25yrs of dog experience, I still consider myself a novice, and leave the breeding to the serious dog breeders who know all about lines and possible temperaments and health issues each different sire and dam could create.

Just enjoy your guy for the great dog he is, and leave the breeding to breeders.
 

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I was tempted once when I had the most well behaved, solid temperament Rottweiler. This guy was all muscle, had great energy and drive, and was sociable to both dogs and strangers. Just a happy go lucky guy while off, and gave 100% when on. Nothing phased him. Barking aggressive dogs, screaming and running children, cats, he took it all in stride. He also had great hip and elbows. People would ask me to stud him out to their females, but I’ll be honest, I was never impressed with females they wanted to stud him to. Looking back on it now, I’m so so glad I didn’t. There are enough BYB’s out there, no need to add to the problem unless you’re certain both the sire and dam are bullet proof, and even after more than 25yrs of dog experience, I still consider myself a novice, and leave the breeding to the serious dog breeders who know all about lines and possible temperaments and health issues each different sire and dam could create.

Just enjoy your guy for the great dog he is, and leave the breeding to breeders.
Just saying that I can't chime in on pedigreee but, all breeders have to start somewhere.

My grandfather was a dog breeder and he'd take in the younger generation and teach them how to responsibly raise and breed dogs. We need MORE people responsibly breeding and caring about the breeds. People go to byb breeders and puppy mills because they're easier to access and find. The more we can get people caring, doing health testing, and learning there's a difference between two litters of $1500 puppies or $1000 etc the better. I've educated so many people who were actually really interested to learn. It was just something they'd never thought of and a lot of people just aren't as passionate about this as the people on the forum are.

If we can start with getting even just basic health testing being a normal thing to do we'd be able to make such a huge difference. I know a breeder of hunting labs. AKC registered, health tested and parents are active hunters. He does occasion litters at $650 for a pup. (I know people put a lot of money into breeding.) but still I'd like to see more of that kind of thing. I get people say just leave it to the professionals. But that gets us no where. It's called the foot in the door method. Start small and work your way up. So start with stressing the importance of health testing and such. Yes I totally get wanting to discourage people from breeding but really most of the time all that probably gets accomplished is the people scoff and go and breed anyway and we lose the chance to make progress.

Yes there is so much that goes into doing really good breeding but right now I really think even starting small would really help make progress. Or at least help in the lives of the pets. Yes temperament matters but at least we can help make it so people maybe don't get a heartbreaking health wreck of a just a pet. The dogs don't deserve that. Teach people if they're going to pay x amount + for a dog to expect at least health testing and papers if it's purebred. Right now people can sell mutts for $800+ without even first shots. Because the buyers don't know better.
 

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Thank you for an honest opinion, again I am not interested in bringing more dogs into the world but just thought I’d ask as food for thought. I would worry way too much about where they would end up! Even if I was a legit breeder with all the tokens to back it up and carefully screened the buyers. The lady that we got Rio from I occasionally update - out of a litter of 9 I am the only person that has bothered to contact her. But I honestly don’t think she cares either way. I couldn’t be like that.
I know a breeder who sold a pup years ago to another breeder. Said pup has now disappeared and her original breeder is devastated. It has been years since anyone has seen the dog and we spoke not long ago of the agony of wondering everyday if she was ok, or alive.
All she wants is to know that the puppy she bred was loved by someone.
That is why I could never be a breeder, and off topic one of the reasons I stay with my dogs when euthanizing. The not knowing would kill me.
 

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Dam's side is mostly working line, but with American showline dogs on the bottom (dam's side of pedigree).


If you go WAAAAAAY back on the bottom side, on the dam’s dam’s side, there are Covy-Tucker dogs, also Sundance Kid. So, popular show dogs, American and Canadian champions and Grand Victors and Selects.
 
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I agree with all that’s been said, there are too many good dogs out there that need homes. Even the pricey, well bred ones end up at times in dire situations. There are so many new litters posted every day on Craigslist, where anyone with cash can bring home a cute new puppy. It breaks my heart to think of all the dogs that are put down daily due to there just not being enough resources for them to be cared for and loved. Before Rio all my dogs have been mutts, and I say that with utmost endearment... they’ve all been wonderful in their own ways and honestly I can’t think of a single time any of them had a genetic issue.

Like anything there is always something new to be learned, but most don’t go much past basic care and sometimes training. Also I’ve always been with my dogs when their time comes... as hard as it is, it would be so much more heart breaking to let them leave this world without their love next to them, you. You gotta be there for them no matter what, just as they are for you.
 

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To maintain any breed of dogs, you need a breeder who knows the breed and you need the best examples of that breed matched correctly to be bred. I like hands on breeders doing something with not only their previous dogs, but the current ones that they're breeding. I like experience. So much of this comes down to trust in the breeder, you can see there's not always agreement on past dogs in a pedigree, so I just accept there's good dogs back there that people thought were worth breeding and I look at what someone has currently from what they thought were the right combinations.

A dog like yours, once all the dogs have been taken out of any particular venues and just bred, you always have a chance at a good dog, but anything that helps predict or put the odds in your favor are gone. The biggest problem for me personally at that point, is that people breeding that way generally skip over any health issues and checks. To me, the health checks like hips/elbows or anything else generally checked for in whatever pure breed is the absolute minimum someone should do.
 

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@Kazel, I understand what you’re saying about the need for more ethical breeders out there, and you’re right, everyone has to start somewhere. But while health is important, temperament and drive are just as important. You can have an incredibly healthy dog, great elbows and hips, and that dog can still have weak nerves. Be fear aggressive. Be a resource guarder, have too much prey drive for the typical dog owner. I could go on, but I’m sure you get what I’m saying.

I had that experience with Lyka. She was a breeding bitch. Her health is and was crap. She was never socialized, with either humans or animals. She was rescued from the breeder by an 18yr old girl who couldn’t handle her, and couldn’t handle the aggression towards her own dogs. The day I was supposed to pick her up, she sent me a message saying she had decided to keep her. I later found out it was because she knew Lyka was pregnant and she wanted the pups so she could sell them. The thread is around here somewhere, but long story short, Lyka had the puppies, and as soon as she could, the girl finally handed over Lyka. Then puppies started dying and I ended up with the litter as well. They eventually all passed from distemper.

The same girl, who went through all the lies and games to sell off a litter started breeding her own bitch as soon as she went into heat. No health testing, and she said the sire was an important. By that, she means that her two dogs, also purchased from a BYB, and siblings (different litters, same parents), were bred together and sold. She next started claiming the male was an important, and started studding him out as such.

I’ve meet plenty of her litters in town. Weak nerves, fearful, aggressive, many don’t even look purebred. One bitch she studded out to had such bad hip problems, she was PTS after her final litter. You know, when she was no longer a use for her in the owners eye.

That’s what you’re mainly going to end up with. People who know the correct way to breed, but don’t want to spend the kind of money it takes to breed ethically. They prey on the people who know nothing about puppies, or lines, or health, and send the puppy out the door with them after letting the new owner pick there own pup.

The 18yr old is still breeding, but she’s 23 now. She’s knows all about health and temperament testing, but doesn’t do any of it, and doctors papers to make it look like she has them health tested. Again, the average pet person wouldn’t know what to look for.

As far as starting out, and selling the pups for cheaper, you’re going to get less quality owners. Sounds sad, but people are willing to pay $500 without papers just to tie them up outside as a “guard dog.” Or to breed another generation of weak nerved and poor health dogs.

When you ask for $1,500 (which I still consider cheap), you’re much more likely to get serious owners who know what they are doing with the puppies. You’re less likely to end up with a nerve basket full of puppies, and the health testing and titling that goes into the dogs before being bred are expensive as all get out. The breeders need to recoup cost somehow, and more often than not, the money that goes into each litter doesn’t even break even for the owner. So they are spending money breeding quality than they are getting back from the litters.

Anyway, not a breeder, so anyone that breeds, correct me if I’m wrong ?
 
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