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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am not sure where to post this so admin please feel free to move it to a different forum.

We have a 2 yo GSD female we got from a breeder. She wasn't fixed and he asked if we would consider breeding her at one point for him. We said maybe. A year later he did the X-ray of hips and she was so aggressive at the vet - they had to put her to sleep for the X-ray - that he was telling me that we need to do something about it. I wasn't too crazy about the breeding idea.

Anyway.. I have two young teenage girls and one is very attached to the dog- sleeps with Dash, hugs her etc.
Overall the dog is very sensitive even a bit anxious. But a good dog overall friendly with people (not so much with other dots though)
She is also super freaked out and aggressive when we try to cut her nails. She won't let us do it and she almost bit us a few months ago when we tried.

A month ago or so my kid were having a little disagreement outside and the dog attacked my other girl with bites through the skin. I had to pull her off her. I was shocked and wasn't sure what to do.

2 wks later the dog was asleep and my daughter went up to her and started hugging her and touched her paws. The dog attacked her with bites through the skin all over her body.

Then 4 days later we were leaving the house and the dog was just chilling by the entrance. When the same daughter was just passing the dog (totally benign no hint of interest in the dog) Dash just attacked her with multiple through the skin bites.

I am caught between many professionals and my family. All trainers and the vet agree that she should not be with us anymore, she became a bully, unpredictable behaviors etc. I am going insane having her still around as my daughter still hugs her and is in denial.

Vets urge me to euthanize.
Trainers think that she MAY be ok with different alpha and boundaries but think it may be a DNA/breeding flow.
My family thinks that a family member should take her. He however lives in a small apartment and works 10 hrs/day. And it would be too close to our family which all trainers said is important to avoid.
Breeder doesn't want her and blamed it all on me and said how disappointed he is as he was counting to breed her etc. only female in that litter etc. Made me feel like xxxx.

My other family members think that I'm a monster even considering euthanasia but I can't imagine if she attacks again.

I am at my wits end. Very stressed out and feel very much alone in this
.

My kids come first. 1 nite/attack
is a lot but 3???

Thank you for reading
Ela


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Buy a muzzle for that dog today! That's the first step until you decide what else to do. Without more background it's impossible to say why this dog is acting the way it is. But I agree with others who've said you need to remove the dog from your household. And for all the reasons mentioned, I agree it would not be good to rehome this dog with a family member. At the very least the dog will need a person well versed in dealing with GSD aggression issues. And whoever gets the dog must know all the details! Sorry you and your family have had to go through this, it's difficult to say the least. But don't put it off because someone WILL get hurt.
 

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Until you figure out what to do, I would tell your daughter who is hugging the dog, to stop completely. Some dogs handle being hugged ok, while others do not.
With multiple attacks that involved multiple through-the-skin bites, I would be considering euthanasia.
JMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you all. I just put a muzzle on her. She is so good 99% of the time that it's heartbreaking...


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Well I am VERY protective of children and would not hesitate to put a dog that viciously attacked a child down, but we cannot know that that is the case here given what we've been told. So, I would not jump on that option yet! Have a professional evaluate the dog first!
 

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Thank you all. I just put a muzzle on her. She is so good 99% of the time that it's heartbreaking...


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Well if she's a good dog 99% of the time then rehome her to an experienced gsd person. Preferably with no kids. Funny how the breeder wants nothing to do with her. Hopefully this is the last dog you get off this breeder.
 

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Thank you all. I just put a muzzle on her. She is so good 99% of the time that it's heartbreaking...


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I know it's heartbreaking...they are, overall, such an awesome breed!

I think that any of us telling you to consider euthanasia certainly are not doing so lightly, considering the love we have for Shepherds.

Has anything in your home changed recently or coincide with the change in behavior?
I think muzzling in the meantime, no hugging and avoiding situations that are exciting (arguments/fights) could calm things considerably, until you figure out how to handle it.
I'm sorry-it's awful to be caught between a much beloved pet and your kids. Keeping the kids safe is paramount though...
 

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Have you had her to the vet for a full check up? Check her thyroid? Personally, she wouldn't be in my house after the second bite, possibly not after the first bite. Kids come first. As others who have said, I would look for someone who has experience with GSDs with aggressive problems and who is willing to work with her. I'm glad you were able to get her to handle a muzzle. Your daughter needs to understand both of your girls need to leave the dog alone.
 

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Well if she's a good dog 99% of the time then rehome her to an experienced gsd person. Preferably with no kids. Funny how the breeder wants nothing to do with her. Hopefully this is the last dog you get off this breeder.


No one seems to know anyone who would take her. The breeder mentioned someone he would contact but I emailed him twice and he is not responding. Totally blowing me off. Almost everyone said that it would be almost impossible to find anyone who would take a dog that attacked with bites a few times...


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Even if you found the right trainer, and this is by no means a certainty by itself, there will be no easy solutions to an issue like this. It will involve a good chunk of management to keep the dog from hurting the girls. Muzzle, crate, high level corrections when you see the dog show any signs of aggression towards the kids. There is no way to work this issue directly if it is only happening towards children without risking a kid. Most trainers don't have direct access to children they are willing to risk. This is why behavior modification for something like this is impractical, unsafe, but not impossible. If it was my dog with my kids I don't have much of a doubt I'd be able to make it work, but I'm me.

Your options are essentially this.

1. Rehome a dog with bite history and hope it goes somewhere it won't be an issue (hard to do if you were honest about it)
2. Put the dog down
3. Manage the dog. Muzzle when its out around your kids while you are there to supervise and then crated when you can't
4. Try to go to a trainer to see if you can work the issues directly and then more than likely option 3 will still be a big part of your final solution. High level corrections for aggression will likely end up part of the solution as well and if it isn't you went to the wrong trainers.
 

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Thank you all. I just put a muzzle on her. She is so good 99% of the time that it's heartbreaking...


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I don't understand why this dog is still in your home! I would board her at a safe facility until you decide the plan of action. What if, at one time, she is 1% "not good"? She has already punctured the skin several times. What else does she need to do to wake you up?
I would do everything to prevent breeding her. What does her breeder say, since (s)he has shown interest in this? What is in the contract? By the way, spaying will not cure this level of aggression.
There have been a few situations which you described that have contributed to this misery but most sound dogs handle clumsy humans well. This dog is a liability. If you seek medical help, docs have to report this to animal control.
 

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Whats the upside Ela? What makes it worth living with a dog like this for you? Some people can do fine with managing and controlling every thing, the muzzling or kenneling, what ever works. Is it worth it for you to live with the risk? The nails are one thing, randomly attacking your daughter for walking by? Think hard about it. I'm not trying to be too harsh, and I'm sure you know how serious it is, but since my only advice would be keep her away from your daughters, that's why I'm asking if its worth it.
 

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Well if she's a good dog 99% of the time then rehome her to an experienced gsd person. Preferably with no kids. Funny how the breeder wants nothing to do with her. Hopefully this is the last dog you get off this breeder.


No one seems to know anyone who would take her. The breeder mentioned someone he would contact but I emailed him twice and he is not responding. Totally blowing me off. Almost everyone said that it would be almost impossible to find anyone who would take a dog that attacked with bites a few times...


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Where are you located. Maybe someone on here knows of someone in your area.
 

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question, maybe I"m missing it,,has the dog attacked the SAME daughter each time? Is that daughter the one doing the hugging etc?

I agree with having a stern talking to the daughter who is 'hugging'the dog,,does she want the dog gone? Cause it will happen if she continues to do it. or she may be end up getting her face ripped off...the dog is obviously uncomfortable with that..No excuses for the dog biting 3 times,,but the behavior by your daughter may be making things worse?

It's hard to say 'what' to do, since you say the dog 99% of the time she's good..and we can't analyze this over the net..
 

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Where are you located??? It's not like there are "no trainers" available that deal with dogs and kids?? You just have to know where to look. :)

That said it, is theoretically possible to "rehome" the dog into a "No Kids" household ... but the fact of the matter is, that would best have been done "before" the dog started to chomp down on kidlets! It's a big task at this point but "rehoming could still be done" with the "Right Rescue."
 

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If this is what I am reading:

The one daughter is attached to the dog, hugs and is ok with it?
The other daughter has been attacked several times by the dog, all over her body? Does she also hug the dog and play with its paws.

The dog is aggressive at the vet and when it needs its toenails clipped?

I don't believe in re-homing a dog that bites kids. Sorry. If you could find someone that will take the dog, can you trust that person to disclose everything if that person ever rehomes the dog?

If the dog kills someone's child, would you be able to live with that, knowing what you know about this dog?

I think that when we take responsibility for a critter, if the dog becomes a danger to the family, we have ro do the responsible thing with the dog. Maybe with a lot of experience, you could personally work with the dog and keep everyone safe. But let's face it, if this dog was with Bailiff, it wouldn't have gotten to this point. Something would have been done differently long ago, if the whole thing isn't totally genetic. So if it is something that can be worked out of the dog, it would have never gotten to this point.

There are many dogs put down each day just because there is not space in the shelter. Is it right to rehome a dog that might do serious damage to another child?

I think you know what you should do, but it is really hard and disturbing, especially since one of your kids ins attached to the dog. Living 24/7 with a muzzle is not an answer.

If your dog had a brain tumor and was not able to walk and was incontinent, possibly in pain, you would make an appointment and have them euthanize your dog. If your dog has bitten your child multiple times on multiple occasions, requiring medical attention, than I think it has a disease that makes it unsafe to live in a family situation. if it is that unstable, unpredictable, fear-aggressive, it isn't in a good place at all. Euthanasia is not a punishment. It is putting a critter out of its misery. Some dogs are so fearful that life for them is not enjoyable.

I am sorry you are going through this. Kids do come first. . If I understand what you wrote, then I would put the dog down.
 

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Aww well potential "Dust Up" notwithstanding ... the fact of the matter is, that right not now this dog, in this household, with this owner, with they are currently doing?? Is just not the right situation, no doubt!

Is the current situation "solvable" for this owner ... I don't know??? But Baillif feels ... it's not a problem and I know a particular trainer that deals with "dogs and kids " all the time. :)

So there is that ... as for me well ... I don't have kids. So there is that, rehoming the dog to a kidless home seems a viable option to me?? But the fact of the matter is the dog has already bitten kids??? So the pool of potential adoptees is gonna pretty small?? Most likely, there are not a lot of potential ... "I don't give a crap what the dog's history" is owners out there because under my watch ... it's not a problem!

The OP has to do what they need to do ... but there are "potential solution" available ... just saying.
 

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There is lots of good advice above. I think everyone is trying to save this dog's life. So add me to that list.

Now, if I read correctly this dog is an adult dog. A full mouth chomp by an adult GSD is no laughing matter. You say more than once on young kids twelve, thirteen years old or there about? I would think these kids would be absolutely terrified of this dog yet they are still hugging him? Next I'm surprised if you were in the ER that the dog was not impounded at least temporarily. A dog bite here will get the cops involved the first time. The second time may be the end of the dog or a court appearance.

My Aussie is an extremely high drive dog not often seen. Often when playing she will accidently nip me. Not a chomp but a pinch that bleeds. She has never purposely bit me but I get nips occasionally. I stop the exercise immediately and go through a no bite routine and a calming exercise. It's something I've worked out just for this dog. Later she will lay next to me and gently lick the nips like she is sorry.

I'm not trying to minimize your case. From your posts it sounds very serious so I'll head there.

I don't think you can handle correcting this yourself. You simply don't have the experience or traning. Not being mean or judgmental, just factual. With that I'd recommend rehoming this dog immediately before someone gets really hurt. Maybe a farm person or country dweller.
If you keep the dog you are going to need a pro that really knows how to handle this. It's not going to be easy nor done quickly,nor cheaply.
He is going to have to teach you how to maintain the dog after he is done. He will have to come back periodically to make sure the dog has stabilized.

I'd get a good muzzle like NOW. Fed Ex over night. Try Ray Allen protection equipment or Leerburg protection equipment. Top quality leather. Not cheap. Yes, I use a prong, never harshly, just a twitch or rattle of the chain. It's a marker that I'm going to ask her to do things.

For some reason many people seem to think GSDs always need harsh corrections. Prong collars get yanked like the priest ringing the church bell. E collars are turned up so they crackle like the lightening of Hades. All this does is turn the dog angry towards you and worsens the situation.
I would not recommend you enter into this philosophy. As noted above, not all dogs like being hugged. Never hug this dog. Not ever again. You note problems trimming claws. I saw a neat solution for this recently. A scratch board was made with 80 grit sandpaper glued to it. A hidden trap door was put in the middle. The owner put treats or peanut butter in the pocket and had the dog try to get it by scratching. It wears the claws down naturally and toughens the pads. You reward the dog by giving him the treat. Another one was constructed on the door. The dog was encouraged to stand up and scratch at it to go out side.

So stop fighting the dog over trimming claws. He is viewing this as hurting him and you lose his trust or bond. My dog doesn't mind me touching or massaging her feet but hates the clippers. So instead of forcing the issue I simply take her to the vet. She loves going to the vet as she gets high value treats from me and pets and sweet talk from the vets. She doesn't like their treats. About the only thing she won't eat. They have her jump up on the table and gentle as can be they trim her claws. So any adversity is from the vet not me. They give me a discount as we come in every couple months for this or some other minor treatment so we both win.

As far as your breeder goes, well, I'd be pretty upset. Most good breeders will take the dog back and make an adjustment. I would not ever take another dog from them no matter what adjustment is made. If they want to give you another dog, I'd walk away., leave the adjustment and write it off to experience. I could get on my "phantom" soap box about breeders but that for another day.

I really hope you can get some pro help or re-home your dog. It's too bad this has happened but you must protect the kids.

Byron
 

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question, maybe I"m missing it,,has the dog attacked the SAME daughter each time? Is that daughter the one doing the hugging etc?

I agree with having a stern talking to the daughter who is 'hugging'the dog,,does she want the dog gone? Cause it will happen if she continues to do it. or she may be end up getting her face ripped off...the dog is obviously uncomfortable with that..No excuses for the dog biting 3 times,,but the behavior by your daughter may be making things worse?

It's hard to say 'what' to do, since you say the dog 99% of the time she's good..and we can't analyze this over the net..


Once one daughter "defending" the other and twice the other daughter


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