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My female is a kennel biter... I don't want to have to root canal and crown any more canines, but tonight she mangled a tow chain bag in my truck b/c she was so amp'ed up with other dogs being worked at training... which means its kennel time, which means she will just kennel bite, which means I think I will have to muzzle her while she's in there. Any danger in that? This is only while we are doing bitework and she is off the deep end while contained in the truck/kennel
 

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i don't see anything wrong with it. I've never had to do it though.
 

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If you were going to do it, I would use a wire, basket style muzzle. Just in the off chance that she vomits or something, she won't choke or inhale it. JMHO.
 

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How about getting a kennel she couldn't bite at?
I'd be afraid to leave her "unattended" with a muzzle, even though you're right there... Jax can slip them off in 30 seconds if I turn my back... sometimes they wind up around his neck.
 

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How about getting a kennel she couldn't bite at?
I'd be afraid to leave her "unattended" with a muzzle, even though you're right there... Jax can slip them off in 30 seconds if I turn my back... sometimes they wind up around his neck.
She is biting at the shield of the locking mechanism... the only thing she could bite. The bars are too close together. A wire crate would be destroyed in minutes, as would a plastic one.
 

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^I think they have kennels specially designed for kennel biters... likely not cheap... one person at our club has one... I'm not sure if they're custom made though.
 

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Honestly, rather than muzzling I'd be looking at options to eliminate the crazy kennel behavior itself. Parking elsewhere, putting her crate elsewhere, whatever you have to do to keep her from going nuts. It is not good for her physical or mental health, or training, to be getting that wound up when crated. Not to mention this type of behavior typically isn't exactly appreciated by other people training in the group either. Muzzling to protect the teeth is merely a tiny bandaid. Better to find a means to address the overall underlying issue.
 

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I've had to muzzle while the dog was crated but our issue stemmed from seperation anxiety. If you think it might help you can give it a shot but i agree that you may want to go with Chris's idea first of moving the kennel
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Honestly, rather than muzzling I'd be looking at options to eliminate the crazy kennel behavior itself. Parking elsewhere, putting her crate elsewhere, whatever you have to do to keep her from going nuts. It is not good for her physical or mental health, or training, to be getting that wound up when crated. Not to mention this type of behavior typically isn't exactly appreciated by other people training in the group either. Muzzling to protect the teeth is merely a tiny bandaid. Better to find a means to address the overall underlying issue.
I'm currently parking *way* far off from the training field... like humorously far away. I literally cannot park further away unless I park on other property and take 20 minutes to go get a dog to train with. She is extremely drivey and reactive, and is more like the mal's at our club than any of the other GSD's. I'm not sure that I can eliminate the high drive biting behavior... I'm not even sure if I want to or how that may carry over onto the field. When she gets in high drive something is getting bitten.

Having spoken extensively with several veterinary dental specialists, this is a pretty common thing in police and military dogs that are kenneled while other dogs are working, so I don't even really think its all that abnormal. Both dvm's told me the vast majority of their work is kennel biting professional working dogs... I don't want to replace teeth, so muzzling for an hour here and there to save $10k is completely reasonable in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've had to muzzle while the dog was crated but our issue stemmed from seperation anxiety. If you think it might help you can give it a shot but i agree that you may want to go with Chris's idea first of moving the kennel
I only would have to do this while other dogs are being worked within earshot. All other times she's 100% fine being in the kennel or confined
 

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Does she do it after she's been worked too? E-collar?
 

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Does she do it after she's been worked too? E-collar?
e-collars are on the way, however I don't know if this will fix the problem.

Nah, after she's been worked and is good and worn out she relaxes. She gets so crazy amped up to work that it is a struggle to just walk to the field... a hundred sitz's platz's and fuss's happen along the way.
 

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My girl howls and carries on due to Separation Anxiety when I take my boy out to work him. As soon as we start to walk away she starts. I park up close to the field because of having two dogs, but I park so that the back of my truck faces away from the field, and I cover the crate which is the only way to keep her quiet. There is no mercy from her shrieking if I forget the blanket to cover the crate with! I also cover my boy when I have my girl out, just because. It seems to help them each relax and remain calm.
 

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Isn't the first thing that you need for a dog who will be doing bitework is a stable temperament? Is this a stable temperament?

A dog that will break its teeth on a kennel is the kind of drives people are looking for?

I actually thought about this for the past two days while I was sick and curled up with Babsy, my couch potato dog, that working line people would not think anything good of.

What if that dog managed to pop the gate open? What would happen? Who would the dog go after? Another dog? The helper?

While it is just a bandaid, why not take this dog to training one day a week, and your other dogs on another day? Then you would not have to leave the dog in a situation where it is so amped up.
 

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I, too, would be afraid of leaving the dog unsupervised with a muzzle on when they are THAT worked up.

Why not invest in one of these crates:

Single Dog Crates
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Isn't the first thing that you need for a dog who will be doing bitework is a stable temperament? Is this a stable temperament?

A dog that will break its teeth on a kennel is the kind of drives people are looking for?

I actually thought about this for the past two days while I was sick and curled up with Babsy, my couch potato dog, that working line people would not think anything good of.

What if that dog managed to pop the gate open? What would happen? Who would the dog go after? Another dog? The helper?

While it is just a bandaid, why not take this dog to training one day a week, and your other dogs on another day? Then you would not have to leave the dog in a situation where it is so amped up.
Its not temperment here that we are talking about. Its extremely high drive. Two different aspects of the dog.

Lots of working dogs are kennel biters from being drivey and also confined. Ask any k9 dental vet. Yes, extreme drive dogs are desirable if you can properly channel that drive

Why would working line people not think anything good of that? Katya sleep curled up to me and is an extremely loving dog.

She cannot escape her kennel. It would never happen. It is escape proof. Even if she did, she would go after the sleeve or bite wedge. Its not anger she is expressing, its drive. She wouldn't go bite someone over it.

B/C thats not enough training for my tastes. Anyway, that wouldn't solve anything. She would still be around other dogs being worked (its a club, so leaving my male at home isn't going to change much.. there are still lots of other dogs).
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I, too, would be afraid of leaving the dog unsupervised with a muzzle on when they are THAT worked up.

Why not invest in one of these crates:

Single Dog Crates
This is her kennel. She cannot get out. See the shield over the locking mechanism? Thats what she bites in the kennel



This is why I want to muzzle her

 

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Zoe chewed through 2 wire crates before we got one similar to your's,lol though her teeth somehow are fine. We tried an e-collar for when we left but she managed to chew that thing off as well. Maybe covering the crate is a good option?
 
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