[Liesje]

Also as Debbie points out the chip is only as good as the information its associated with.

 

[Stosh]

What she said...

 

[Liesje]

The problem lies with the design and manufacture of the chips, therefore the logical parties to sue would be said manufacturers.

But those frequencies are not a secret. Pet owners can readily find that information before deciding which chip to use, and you CAN get the European chips here if that's what you want. I guess I don't see how you can sue over a chip that has a frequency you didn't want and/or was encrypted but that information is published.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that there should be a standard. I mean, we should use Celsius and the metric system too....

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

That's not good (is that because of training, lack of staff?)

I understand that not all failures of the chip/scanner are due to the brands.....but the things that can be fixed and controlled, why not?

the problem is, it doesn't matter if all the chips can be read by all scanners if the shelter doesn't bother to scan! Sadly, that is too often the case around here

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

Ya know I have to admit I assumed that the chips were standardized because honestly it defies logic that they aren't....when the main purpose is to save pets.

You are correct about the chips, the problem is you have no control of where your lost dog ends up and which scanner is used.....

But those frequencies are not a secret. Pet owners can readily find that information before deciding which chip to use, and you CAN get the European chips here if that's what you want. I guess I don't see how you can sue over a chip that has a frequency you didn't want and/or was encrypted but that information is published.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that there should be a standard. I mean, we should use Celsius and the metric system too....

 

[Dainerra]

But is it the companies fault? I don't think so. A company is in business to make money. That is what they do. Their product does exactly as it is advertised to do - ID your pet. Sure not all products are compatible with scanners bought from another company. The majority of scanners WILL read that a chip is there, even if the info can't be accessed.
What responsibility does the owner have to research the product that they buy? I think that they are wholly responsible as long as the company didn't misrepresent themselves.

I believe that the shelter is responsible in most cases - purely from negligence. I know from first-hand conversation with shelter staff here that they DON'T scan for microchips. Only if an owner contacts them and says "My GSD is lost and he has a chip" Then, if a GSD comes in, they will do a quick once over with the scanner. Unfortunately, a quick once over will often miss a chip that IS there

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

Also as Debbie points out the chip is only as good as the information its associated with.

Agreed....and that is made more difficult by the fact thatsometimes you have to keep up with multiple databases. It is however, the dog owners responsibility to make sure of it.

 

[Liesje]

You are correct about the chips, the problem is you have no control of where your lost dog ends up and which scanner is used.....

Which is my problem and not anyone else's.

Bottom line is, the chips generate profit. Is saving pets really the main purpose? To us pet owners, yes, but not really.

 

[Dainerra]

That's not good (is that because of training, lack of staff?)

It's just their policy. The directors believe it would be too time consuming to scan every animal that is brought in.

 

[selzer]

You want to pay for it? How? Which company should HAVE to change their chips or scanners??? Should ALL scanners be able to read any chip however many digits they have, including European chips?

Should every tiny rural shelter and vet clinic be provided the universal scanners free of charge.

Gwenhwyfair, if you are a multi-millionaire, maybe you can do this with all that dough you have nothing better to do with.

You go!

BTW, some of my dogs have homeagain, some have avid.

Using the government's time to mess around with dog chips is simply not on my list of priorties for government.

 

[Dainerra]

My vet told me that not all chips/readers are compatible when I first asked. I said "what is the difference between chips A, B, and C" and he told me that each company has their own database and scanners and (at that time) many wouldn't even recognize that a different brand chip is present. Now the majority of scanners will at least pop up an error "unreadable" message. He and I discussed what is the most common chip in the US and what is most likely to be readable where ever I may travel. So, on his advice, I picked HomeAgain.

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

It depends on what goes wrong. Unfortunately since the microchipping system in the U.S. is not standardized it is not easy to track and maintain.

Here's the problem with the 'company is in business to make money' logic is they are making money selling 'safety'. At the same time they are intentionally building in parameters which limit positive safe results of their product. This is the dilemma, the paradox, you cannot make a product telling consumers your pet will come "homeagain" and then INTENTIONALLY limit the potential of the product delivering on it's promise. In the case of scanner incompatibility it is NOT the owners responsbility because they don't have control of which shelter a lost dog ends up in nor the brand of scanner the shelter has.

The shelter staff, having equipment and then not using is another line of discussion entirely because it's doesn't relate to the ability of the product to work if properly used. It is surprising (and sad) to read what you write about shelters. The rescues and shelters I've worked used the scanners.

But is it the companies fault? I don't think so. A company is in business to make money. That is what they do. Their product does exactly as it is advertised to do - ID your pet. Sure not all products are compatible with scanners bought from another company. The majority of scanners WILL read that a chip is there, even if the info can't be accessed.
What responsibility does the owner have to research the product that they buy? I think that they are wholly responsible as long as the company didn't misrepresent themselves.

I believe that the shelter is responsible in most cases - purely from negligence. I know from first-hand conversation with shelter staff here that they DON'T scan for microchips. Only if an owner contacts them and says "My GSD is lost and he has a chip" Then, if a GSD comes in, they will do a quick once over with the scanner. Unfortunately, a quick once over will often miss a chip that IS there

 

[Dainerra]

But, therein lies the difference in opinion. The chips work EXACTLY as the company says that they will.

ETA: the reason I brought up the lack of proper scanner use in shelters is because we have no way of knowing WHY those chipped dogs were euthanized. Was it because the scanner didn't read the chip? Was it lack of training in use? Did it even get used? All we know is that some dogs were euthanized, even though they were chipped.

As I said, most scanners will tell you that a chip is there, even if it cannot read it

 

[Montana Scout]

from what i read, if a dog is chipped it can not be euthenized until last resort... but i do believe most of us at least have the chip registered at the AKC

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

Actually, how forthright are the various manufacturers about the limitations. AVID got in some trouble over this back in '04 I think it was.

It boils down to liesje said in her last post.....

Agree with you about pin pointing the problem at the shelters, it's not aleays going to be black and white. The AVID scanner my vet had did not read the ISO chip at all...the wiki link I posted in my OP has a compatibility table.

Ya know I hope if anything comes from this thread at least some people will learn and understand about the limitations of these microchips. If it encourages one person to research and helps....that'll be good too.

But, therein lies the difference in opinion. The chips work EXACTLY as the company says that they will.

ETA: the reason I brought up the lack of proper scanner use in shelters is because we have no way of knowing WHY those chipped dogs were euthanized. Was it because the scanner didn't read the chip? Was it lack of training in use? Did it even get used? All we know is that some dogs were euthanized, even though they were chipped.

As I said, most scanners will tell you that a chip is there, even if it cannot read it

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

I had some problems with Keefer's microchip. He was born in August 2005 and came home at the end of October. I had him chipped with a Home Again chip at his first vet appointment, which was a day or two later. At the time there was only one registry, the AKC CAR program. All chips, regardless of the manufacturer, were registered with the AKC but you had to do it through the chip company, so although I signed up through Home Again and paid them the fee, he was registered with the AKC. At some point after Keefer's microchip Home Again split off and formed their own registry.

I wasn't aware of this until we got Halo. The breeder had a Home Again chip put in and sent us the paperwork to register the chip. She recommended using AKC CAR rather than Home Again because you can pay a onetime fee to register the chip and Home Again added all these additional services for an annual fee. That sounded fine to me, especially since Keef was already registered through AKC CAR.

Or so I thought. I registered her chip online, and it had an option to link other pets to the same account. I tried entering his number (right off his AKC CAR collar tag), and the system couldn't find him. I tried looking him up on Home Again's website, but I couldn't get it work so I called them. They confirmed that he was in their registry. I questioned how that could have happened - since he was originally registered by the AKC wouldn't he still be there, and only newer customers that registered with Home Again after the split be in their system? They claimed that the split occurred in early 2005, months before he was chipped and registered, in fact months before he was even born. Great, then why was I sent an AKC collar tag in November 2005 if he was indeed registered with Home Again and not AKC?

They assured me that if he were lost and someone checked with one registry and he wasn't in their system they'd be referred to the other company, so it wasn't necessary to pay a second time to re-register his chip with AKC. Yeah, right - not taking a chance on that! I told them that I was looking at his AKC collar tag showing the number that they (Home Again) had in their system but AKC did not, and I was concerned that his tag did not match the registry he was in. Neither company seemed think this was a big problem and they kept shifting the blame to each other. I was NOT HAPPY!

I sent both of them nasty emails and we went back and forth a few times before it was finally resolved. I wanted either AKC to enter him in their registry since I had already paid for that, so if someone called the number on his tag and gave them the chip number or scanned him, he would be in the system, OR I wanted Home Again to send me a collar tag with their phone number on it to match the registry he was actually in. I was prepared to pay for one or the other if I didn't make any headway, but I didn't think I should have to. Home Again finally did send me another collar tag to use.

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

Yup, that's another problem, the complication of seperate databases.

Thanks for sharing your story and thanks all for your inputs....time to sign off. Good evening to all!

I had some problems with Keefer's microchip. He was born in August 2005 and came home at the end of October. I had him chipped with a Home Again chip at his first vet appointment, which was a day or two later. At the time there was only one registry, the AKC CAR program. All chips, regardless of the manufacturer, were registered with the AKC but you had to do it through the chip company, so although I signed up through Home Again and paid them the fee, he was registered with the AKC. At some point after Keefer's microchip Home Again split off and formed their own registry.

<snipped>.

 

[selzer]

Mine are not registered through the CAR system. My last few dogs are signed up through that, but their chips are only registered with the chip companies, Avid or HomeAgain.

 

[Chicagocanine]

I think it depends on the area in which you live and which company you use and company shelters, rescues, and vet offices use.. I see the warning you sending, but for me it doesn't mean much.

Unfortunately that's not always so easy. I've had my pets chipped at a few vets and they all used different chips! Even when I had more than one pet chipped at the same vet (different times) the vet had switched and was using a different brand when I got the second pet done. I am pretty sure the many many shelters and rescues in my area also use different brands and probably have different brands of scanners too. I've had two pets chipped at shelter clinics that used AVID as does the county's mobile microchip clinic. My vet opened a new clinic and she only has the scanner that she got from the company who makes the chip variety she uses (ResQ.) So some of my pets have Home Again, some have AVID, some have ResQ... Most of them I also registered with 24PetWatch because they had free registration, and Bianca's chip is also registered with UKC and with AKC CAR. Bianca's tattoo is registered with them also but her tattoo could also possibly be registered somewhere under someone else's name since her kennel club registration had the wrong name/tattoo number listed(so her paperwork may have been given to someone who owns one of her littermates.)

Even just in one area there is not necessarily one "standard" or common brand of chip being used... I also travel with my dogs so even if one type of chip was common here, it might not be wherever we ago on trips.

 

[Jessiewessie99]

Unfortunately that's not always so easy. I've had my pets chipped at a few vets and they all used different chips! Even when I had more than one pet chipped at the same vet (different times) the vet had switched and was using a different brand when I got the second pet done. I am pretty sure the many many shelters and rescues in my area also use different brands and probably have different brands of scanners too. I've had two pets chipped at shelter clinics that used AVID as does the county's mobile microchip clinic. My vet opened a new clinic and she only has the scanner that she got from the company who makes the chip variety she uses (ResQ.) So some of my pets have Home Again, some have AVID, some have ResQ... Most of them I also registered with 24PetWatch because they had free registration, and Bianca's chip is also registered with UKC and with AKC CAR. Bianca's tattoo is registered with them also but her tattoo could also possibly be registered somewhere under someone else's name since her kennel club registration had the wrong name/tattoo number listed(so her paperwork may have been given to someone who owns one of her littermates.)

Even just in one area there is not necessarily one "standard" or common brand of chip being used... I also travel with my dogs so even if one type of chip was common here, it might not be wherever we ago on trips.

My family and I go to one vet. We asked the shelter what chip they use, and they told us Home Again. We already had Molly chipped by our vet that we take both dogs too. My family and I don't travel very often(haven't in a long time) and when we go we stay in California, and my sister stays home with the dogs.

We also know how to keep our dogs safe and secure in our home, plus they never want to leave home. We also have tags for them. If we ever did travel with our dogs, my parents would take extra precautions to make sure our dogs stay safe and secure.