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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My new little girl hails from Europe and has a full duplex ISO chip made by Bayer.

Took her to the vet for last round of booster shots and asked the vet to scan for the chip. NO chip found! My vet explains to me that chips are not standardized in the U.S. Chip makers have (and some continue to) make chips 'properitary', so that only the chip manufacturers scanner can read the chip.

So I did the research and found that petlink and a couple of others make a 'black label' scanner which reads multiple varities of chips. Off I go to Banfield because they have a scanner which can pick up the ISO chips, have her chip scanned, it reads O.K. with the correct ID number.

So the next problem, some of the chip manufacturers in the U.S. also have proprietary databases, so if your dog's chip is scanned (which is not a guarantee) you still may not be able to find the company with which the chip is registered.

In my research I found that dogs which had been microchipped had been euthanised at shelters because of this.

I gather that there are some efforts to centeralize all of this, but some manufacturers are really dragging their feet (don't want to loose their market share, it's o.k. if a few dogs die....I guess...:crazy: )

<vent> WHY are we so behind Europe on standardizing microchips! This defeats the purpose of putting microchips in dogs, shelters and vets can't afford to buy 4, 5 or 6 different scanners....for crying out loud, then having to search multiple data bases.... </end vent>

Question: I'm registered with petlink's database, it seems to cross reference on the net with most of the other registries. Any suggestions of other registries which will accept the new 15 digit ISO chips?

Warning: Research the chips and technology before putting one in your dog!

Here's and informative link about this topic at wiki:

Microchip implant (animal) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think alot of it depends on what micochip company you use. Where I am most shelters, rescues and vet offices use Home Again, which I have in both of my dogs.

Also wiki isn't a very good source IMO.

wiki isn't the best source for some things, but my first source was the my vet, the second vet confirmed and my additional research as well.

Just be warned that if your dog gets lost and winds up at shelter with a scanner that does not read the homeagain chip....for all practical purposes your dog is not chipped.

Please do take a moment look at the wiki link as it has a cross-compatibility table at the bottom
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
O.k. but sheesh, I was really surprised that there isn't a standard! Dogs have died because of this and it meant something to their owners. Some day you may have to travel with your pets.

It's just not right and it's because of greed.

Like I said, in my area, most of the shelters, rescues, and vet offices use the same chip company we use. So they have the scanner.It was out vets suggestion of getting the chip for Molly, and the shelter already implanted the chip in Tanner

And plus neither of my dogs go far, Tanner may run to the end of the block, but thats it. Molly refuses to leave the front yard. My city is rather small, almost everyone knows what my dogs look like and who they belong to.

I think it depends on the area in which you live and which company you use and company shelters, rescues, and vet offices use.. I see the warning you sending, but for me it doesn't mean much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
when my pup had a vet visit i asked them if they would scan him... didn't look like a fancy device and i don't know the brand, but it read the chip just fine.... might have to take him to the pound to see if it reads there just in case
You may also want to contact the manufacturer of the chip and find out what kind it is first...then you'll have a better idea of what kind/brand of scanner will read it.

Another comment about this in general: A lot of people, I am finding, don't know that there is a cross compatibility problem between chips and scanners. That is misleading when a company like homeagain sells all these 'warm and fuzzies' knowing that many companies don't read each other's chips. Some went so far to encrypt the chips!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Not me, I got my puppers scanned and right off the bat the vets AVID scanner did not find the chip. Have id tags on her collar too.

I agree one shouldn't depend soley on microchips, even if we had a standardized system.

Still what the U.S. microchip companies are doing is wrong on a lot of levels.


It has been this way for a while. When I got my first pets chipped I picked what seemed to be the most common chip for my area. So far I've never had a problem with it being read.

When one of my pets was lost recently (she got away from the people taking care of her and it spooked her being chased), she was returned to me because of the ID plate on her collar. If having a pet returned is the main concern, I would definitely get good ID plates for collars. Even if a pet has a chip that can be read and is up to date, it's amazing how many people aren't aware they exist or are too lazy to take the animal to get scanned. Even in threads on this forum people have found dogs and didn't take the animal to be scanned first thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have to respectfully disagree with you, the U.S. chip companies stink! Some of the same companies make ISO chips in Europe why the heck aren't they doing it here? Money money money trumps saving pets.

The frequency and format of ALL chips and scanners should be standardized as they are in Europe.

A lot of people, including myself, travel with my pets. If I am to pay for extra protection, if my dog is scanned, it darn well should work no matter where I am in the U.S.

It's also not fair that vets, shelters and rescues have to pick and choose and pay for different scanners. Banfield had a total of three but they are a big chain.

Tattooes are an option, and I don't travel much. If I do travel somewhere out of the state I may or may not bring my dogs. If I am just going to another city in my state I leave my dogs at home and have my neighbors watch them.

Not all chip companies are bad. You just have to see what companies are being used in your area.

Also I have tags for my dog's collars, not just chips. My shelter will take in dogs and keep them for the owner(chipped or not).
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
There still are some areas that aren't fully on board. If you are traveling to an EU country or from one EU contry to another it's mandatory to have a 15 digit ISO chip (or your own scanner, I must add). Therefore dogs imported from EU (and other ISO compliant countries) into the U.S. will have the 15 digit ISO chip.

A person who implants a chip in their dog in Germany and travels from Kiel to Munich and the pet gets lost can be assured if the pet is scanned the chip will be read. That's not the case in the U.S. even if you travel from one end of your city to the other.

What I'm talking about is, within the U.S. it should be mandatory, should a consumer decide to implant a microchip in their pet, that it be universal so it can be read by any scanner. Anything less defeats the true purpose of putting a microchip in your pet.

(btw- I don't expect third world places to get on board, so world over no, the U.S. why not?)


I guess I don't get why you think this is just a US problem?

And as far as standardizing...they are not a legal requirement. I don't think the world over you will ever have standarization of the product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Again, the point here is, if you're paying money to add another layer of protection the companies should at least advise you that they have built in limitations!

tattoos -- well, there is no centralization for tatoos either, and they sometimes wear, not everyone looks for them. Sometimes in the ear, sometimes on the thigh. At best, not a sure thing.

Tattoos are good if you have several dogs and need a way to identify them to an AKC inspector. They are good if you want to identify your own dog. I certainly would not trust a shelter to do anything with a tattoo.

Collars are ok if your dog wears them 24/7 and they do not break away. Of course, they can kill the dog too. Not a sure thing either.

Chips are only as good as the ability of the scanners and the willingness of the people to scan them. Certainly not a sure thing either.

Of course ANY time your dog is loose and not under control, they may be run over or shot or taken or attacked. So the best thing to do is to protect your dog by keeping them safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Maybe I missed something but what dogs got put down b/c of their chips?

WebCite query result

Of course it would be impossible to quantify exactly how many dogs have been needlessly euthanised, the animals owners couldn't be found, the dog was a stray....and that's the end of it.

Yet deductively I think we can all agree that A) it has happened, b)the lack of standardization will allow it to continue to happen and C)that the number of pets euthanised specifically because of a chip/scanner incompatibility doesn't have to be very high to be unacceptable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
The chip manufacterers exist to save pets or make money? It so happens that two can be and have been mutually exclusive.


I see it a bit differently. I believe that it is my job, as the consumer, to research the limitations of safety equipment. When I got Rayden chipped, I checked with my vet as to which chip they recommended as well as with the local AC/Humane Societies to see which scanners they had.
The chip manufacturers exist to sell their product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I have 2 dogs from Europe with the European ISO chips. My vet has a homeagain reader and it registers that the dogs have a microchip, just that it's from another company. Someplace I read that all new scanners are supposed to at least have this ability,but I can't recall where I read that.

There isn't a central database, but the scanner will identify the database and you contact the appropriate company. I also have my microchip numbers registered with the AKC pet retrieval database.

I just found this online, but I never heard of it before.

"As of September 2009, there are two Internet-based search engines that allow users to enter a microchip code. The American Animal Hospital Association's Universal Pet Microchip Lookup Tool (www.petmicrochiplookup.org) provides a listing of the manufacturer with which the microchip's code is associated as well as if the chip information is found in participating registries. Chloe Standard's database (www.checkthechip.com) displays the manufacturer of that microchip. Neither database provides owner information for the microchip – the user must then contact the manufacturer/database associated with that microchip."
That's another thing, you buy a dog from Europe and there is no verifed way of transferring owner of record on the chip from the breeder/owner in Europe to the customer in the states.

New scanners are getting better but there are still some proprietary baloney going on.

My vet had AVID and it didn't read the chip, we tried several times, banfield confirmed the chip worked and was accurate. The chip came up with the phone number of the company which made the scanner, petlink. Petlink seems to have a more open format and cross referencing.

Chloes did not find my dogs registered chip tho...

Also, check out petmaxx.com for online look ups...
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I'm not into law suits, but if it could be verified my dog was euthanised due to a scanner/chip proprietary issue I'd go to town.

It's like buying extra insurance only to not have the insurance be there when you need it.

The story I posted, the dog slipped it's collar. We try to be careful but things happens, that's what microchips are there for, the 'what if' moment that can happen to any of us.


I'm with Dainerra. I have chipped 8 pets in the past 8 years and have never felt the chip company would be legally responsible for me losing my pet and it being euthanized. I looked into the chip options and went with the one that all our area shelters use and all the shelters and vets can scan for. Our shelters are required to hold stray/lost animals for 10 days. The one time I had a pet lost we were calling and visiting all area shelters daily. There's no way my animal would be euthanized even without a microchip. In the end the tag on her collar got her back to me safe and sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
In red, below, here's the irony, that bonus is less expensive in EU countries with far higher chances of actually working!


I think that with a chip, if you find your stolen dog yourself -- don't expect the police to be too fussed about your missing dog -- and you claim that the dog is yours, a microchip might be a good way to prove that the dog is yours.

Other than that, it qualifies as permanent identification for OFA ratings. That is why they are in my dogs. To protect them in the event that they are lost and then found, well, that would be a bonus if it happened and worked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
That's why I use the words proprietary and scanner/chip compatibility.

Understand here that some companies have even intentionally ENCRYPTED their chips.

there are a million different ways that the chip might not be picked up by the scanner. It could be as simple as the chip had migrated or that the person who was supposed to scan the dog when it came in didn't do their job. Or maybe did it half-heartedly. The majority of readers will at least tell you that a chip is there, even if propitiatory rights mean that it can't read the info
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
No don't sue the shelters, that would be silly. They did not create the problem and those law suits would probably kicked out of the court.

The problem lies with the design and manufacture of the chips, therefore the logical parties to sue would be said manufacturers.





Why don't we sue vets, rescues, and shelters because they don't have the right scanners? Actually, many of them do. Our shelter has multiple scanners so they can read any chip. A friend of mine has a dog with the European ISO chip and when we enter dog shows and Schutzhund trials since her dog is not tattoo'd it has to be checked for the chip and the owner must provide the scanner. Our shelter lets her borrow one of their European frequency scanners for these events (she writes them a check and then they void it when she returns the scanner).
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
That's not good (is that because of training, lack of staff?)

I understand that not all failures of the chip/scanner are due to the brands.....but the things that can be fixed and controlled, why not?

the problem is, it doesn't matter if all the chips can be read by all scanners if the shelter doesn't bother to scan! Sadly, that is too often the case around here
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Ya know I have to admit I assumed that the chips were standardized because honestly it defies logic that they aren't....when the main purpose is to save pets.

You are correct about the chips, the problem is you have no control of where your lost dog ends up and which scanner is used.....

But those frequencies are not a secret. Pet owners can readily find that information before deciding which chip to use, and you CAN get the European chips here if that's what you want. I guess I don't see how you can sue over a chip that has a frequency you didn't want and/or was encrypted but that information is published.

I'm not disagreeing with the idea that there should be a standard. I mean, we should use Celsius and the metric system too....
 
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