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What are your thoughts on different breeds being used for this kind of work? I was just reading how quite a few cities/towns are doing this with success? Not only are they using different breeds they are pulling dogs from shelters and saving money on the initial purchase and putting the money into training.
 

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I know of departments near me that use labs and a german shorthair pointer for detection. But I have never seen anything but the GSD/mal/dutchie and their crosses for apprehension. I imagine there is history of rotties and dobies but not a recent history.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
What are your thoughts on different breeds being used for this kind of work? I was just reading how quite a few cities/towns are doing this with success? Not only are they using different breeds they are pulling dogs from shelters and saving money on the initial purchase and putting the money into training.
I will use any dog that can do the job. Breed and color are not factors in my selection process. If a shelter dog can do it then great. Any dog with the right temperament, drives, clear headed, strong civil aggression will work. I do like a dog in the 60-80lb range, a mutt that fits the bill I would take.

I know of departments near me that use labs and a german shorthair pointer for detection. But I have never seen anything but the GSD/mal/dutchie and their crosses for apprehension. I imagine there is history of rotties and dobies but not a recent history

DK, yes, we have labs for narcotics detection and a neighboring agency uses the GSP's. I know if one handler that worked rotties for years, that was his thing. GSD's, Mals, DUtchies and the X's are what you see lately.
 

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I was reading an increase in pit bulls in both police and military. They had some pictures of k9 handlers with these dogs and everyone looked happy and ready to work.
 

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Discussion Starter #85
K-9 Boru's 6th hard surface track:

https://youtu.be/UYWn6H7ipEg

Using a modified HITT method with a scent article in the water. Just to acclimate the dog to nose down tracking on asphalt and concrete. It is scent discrimination tracking. Using a busy parking lot to start gets the dog accustomed to cars, trucks and people going by, great distraction training for the real world tracks. After a month, and 1/2 mile long tracks, weaning out the food and water then I will go to grass. Phase 2 involves a track layer / decoy and agitation to put the dog into drive to track.

Boru is very driven to track already. He has a habit of barking and getting "pushy" when he wants something or goes into "drive.". I've seen this over a toy and in some bitework already. I am working on managing this "pushy" behavior as it can lead to him being a little frantic. Frantic and pushy is not where I want this dog to go. Tomorrow, I will start some formal work on focusing on me, quietly. I think once I get a good level of focus I will be able to "cap" him much easier. I have already started teaching him to contain himself and it is working out pretty well. All tracking and focus drills tomorrow, no toys, just food rewards. He is a little possessive of his toys and can be rather reactive. I want my whole unit around when I break out the toys. It is always fun to watch some one else get bit, in this case it will be fun for them. :smirk:

On a serious note, things are going very well. The car issue is resolved and he stays and waits before being let out of the car. He enthusiastically jumps into the car. We are bonding very nicely and I really, really like this dog. He is not dog aggressive and social at the vet and around groups of people. Every day he gets better. In a week or so I will start more formal obedience and control work.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
I was reading an increase in pit bulls in both police and military. They had some pictures of k9 handlers with these dogs and everyone looked happy and ready to work.
State Police had a pit bull for explosives detection and he was great. I have not seen any used for patrol work.
 

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http://youtu.be/L6-uMy4DwyQ

Deacon,
The tracking is going well. Actually, all of his training is going well and I have seen some nice progress in the past two weeks. He is doing well in agility, obedience and his bite work is super.

I have been working on impulse control, focus and capping. It had been working well and the original displacement and redirecting issue when corrected or frustrated is almost gone. I have been doing obedience and working him with toys. I am also able to take his toys with out any aggression or issues.

I am out of town and Boru is in the Police Kennel. One of my buddies took him out of the kennel for a walk today. Boru nailed him pretty good and stayed on for several minutes. It took two other Officers to assist removing him and putting him back in the kennel.

I am concerned the work I have done and the progress made over the past 2 weeks may have taken a small set back.

Unfortunately, my mother is having surgery and I am at the hospital this week. I'm sure Boru is confused as he was settled in with me and now is in a strange kennel.

When I get back I will go back to working on the same things and get him back to his happy place.
 

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I can see his confidence on the surfaces. He looks awesome!

I had the same problem with K-9 Grizzly. When I left him at the vets for a couple of days while I went out of town he was really polite to the boarding staff. He let them feed him, take his pan, feed him dog buiscuits and just talk to him.

One of the attendants came the second day with his leash and collar and when she opened the gate to take him out he tore into her. Later that day he was an angel when getting fed pulling his pan and the staff checking on him and conversing with him. Gotta love it. LOL
 

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We are making progress. I haven't done a lot of tracking this past week or two. I was away for a week and I am still covering the street with Boomer. I am going out tracking now and I'm training today.

He has gotten better with his leash aggression and frustration. He tagged me a couple of times last week, once for being corrected for going after his toy after he was told to "out." He grabbed my hand, but I think he was just going for the leash. I was choked up on the leash and my hand was in the way. It was quick, he let go immediately and we had a quick discussion. Even though, he was going for the leash, it still stings a little when you hand winds up inside the teeth holster.

We did some unit training and after the bite work, I had the decoy slip the suit top and Boru carried it outside. I was able to out him and walk him back to my car. Then one of the other guys picked up the top to put it away. Right at the moment I had taken the leash off and was holding him by the harness to put him back in my truck. Boru quickly spun and lathered my left arm up with a bunch of saliva. That didn't hurt as he quickly let go and didn't clamp down on my arm.

I am getting some varied opinions about this, there are some that do not think this is a big deal. Easy to say, when it's not your arm in the sharp vice. I am looking down the road and serious deployments and getting tagged because I am not letting the dog have the person he wants. I am also concerned for other Officers that may wind up in this hair missiles flight path to target.

I can accept some degree of redirecting to me when amped or frustrated, many super high drive dogs will do this, GSD's like Boomer will as well. I am working on eliminating as much as I can in training, so I don't have as much to be concerned about on the street.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
Deacon,
I started working on the out today on the table. I am going to work it like this for a little while, it eliminates the conflict and the ability to redirect back to me.


The decoy could have had offered a better presentation, but his timing was good. This was his first time decoying this way.

The whole point of this exercise was to work the out with little agitation, no stress and doing 'substitution" for the slipped sleeve. I also wanted to get Boru comfortable with me next to him and watch his reaction. He had no issue with me approaching and petting him on the bite, he was also pretty clear headed during this session.
 

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Looks good and clear in his bitework. Luckily your guy isnt commiting to the bite when he gets you.

Redirection is a PITA. If he is predictable then at least you can avoid most of it.

My Mal can become frustrated when he screws up in training and is prevented from self rewarding through biting. The wires get crossed and the redirection happens.
I personally find the longer my dog goes without some bitework the more likely a redirection will happen if he gets frustrated. Like an addict he needs his fix...lol. So he gets some real aggressive work just to keep the edge off on the regular.

I also found that using an end cue like "all done" at the end of a session actually helped him calm down at the end and be less frustrated. Even though the decoy is still there he can walk off without being a jackass because he knows there is no possibility of more biting.

Cool dog, good luck with him.
 

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Discussion Starter #95
The end cue is a good idea. I let him chill out for a while before even trying to take him back to the car. This dog sees a building and wants to search it. If sees or hears some one inside he goes deaf and wants in. He is clear in the bite work, it's the out off a suit that can be an issue. It can be touch and go removing him from a decoy, if you tell him to heel and correct he will redirect. It is getting better. I have found that letting him get gassed really helps, along with a few minutes to clear his head. He was gassed in that video. We had done about two sets before that video.


Right now, there is no walking away with a decoy in sight. I know he will not listen and I don't want to set him up to disobey and be forced to really correct him. I'm trying to work up to that. I just don't want to put him in a position where I have to hammer him, cause conflict and fight with him. That day may come, but I am looking for ways to avoid it in training.

I've been avoiding doing a lot of bite work, only once a week or so. I'm not worried about this dog biting, he is civil and will absolutely bite with out equipment I also do not need to put a lot of work into his grip. It's all about control and keeping him clear headed, that is the project right now.

Thanks! He is a nice dog, I really like him.
 

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Thanks, Steve. I need to get someone else to hold the camera. I do want to do some down fields for sure, I will get some video on Wednesday. I started the beginnings of a systematic, methodical building search last Wednesday. I want the dog to go into a building and search every room with out skipping rooms, at least in training. I have started our long line clearing which is needed for some of our applications, like covert clears. But, this dog goes in on a seek and destroy mission and goes to his eyes first over his nose. It is a common phenomena with dogs, and you need to get the dog to switch to his nose and rely on that immediately upon entering a building. I've only done a few building searches, so it will come in time. I'm sure in the next couple of weeks it will all click.
 

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Looks good! As long as you correct anytime he tries it you should be fine.

What I do after "every" bite session is escort the quarry off the field, let the dog see him depart out of view or enter the vehicle like a prisoner, close the door turn him around and run off shouting praise, then when far enough away stop and verbally, physically praise him.
 

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Discussion Starter #99
Deacon,
It's a little too soon to start an escort. We do have the decoy run deeper into the building, so the dog always thinks there is a suspect in the building. I will see how it goes tomorrow when we do some more suit work.
 
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