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Well the same client that thought that their dog had Lyme disease tells me that the dog has Pano, is there a anti imflamatory or something that can be given to help the said dog through this that doesn't have lasting effects?
 

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3k9Mom About 4 weeks ago I had a client form our Ghost and Cira litter contact me about her girl might have Lyme disease at least the vet thought so they did a test for Lyme and it came back negitive. so she had another vet x-ray her and they come up that she had Pano.

Well she thought it was over and let her out to run and now its showed up again, was just wondering if there was anything out there to help with the discomfort this brings the dog and also she is 8 months old
 

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When my puppy had pano, my vet recommended giving her children's chewable aspirin. I would recommend checking with the vet, but I think I gave her an aspirin 2x a day when she had a pano flare up.
 

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Ruger was given Metacam liquid and MSM for his Pano. He had his first episode at 7 months. It showed up off and on for 4 months. The Metacam worked really well for him but it is very expensive. It was the worst case my vet had ever treated and I did not care what it cost to relieve the pain. It (Metacam) did not have any residule effects that I can see. He is 2 now and doing great.
Good luck!
 

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Limit the excercise which is hard with high drive dogs. The excercise makes the pain worse.

I am on the fence about giving anti-inflamatory meds. I used don't laugh but Knox Unflavored Gelatin. The properties of gelatin are a natual anti-inflamatory. I had a link but it isn't working any more, German Athletes used to use it to recover from over doing workouts or competition. I also gave childrens asprin, but only an night so my pup could get a good nights sleep.

Val
 

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i noticed you had 9 GSD's some with titles. i find it hard to beleive that you don't know about pano!!!!
 

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Thanks All She is on baby bufferin now and yes Val I thought the same thing when she told me that she was running so much the other day. Yes it is hard to keep some of these high drive dogs down. Gelatin wow would have never thought. Val can you PM me as to what type of Gelatin to give
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Doggiedad Havn't had this problem until now, guess I have been lucky. You get the average limp once in a while but this case is a bit more than I ever seen.
 

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I'm with Val. Aspirin can cause stomach and GI tract damage. Rimadyl, well, it's rimadyl. It's necessary when it's necessary, but I prefer to try other options first.

Pano runs its course. All we can do is pain relief. Nothing "cures" it.

Take a look at this thread: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=746283&page=1#Post746283 Some of the suggestions are directly related to joint issues. The Glucosamine/Chondroitin, for example. But most of the suggestions deal with limiting inflammation. Vitamin C (Ester C in particular), Fish Oil, Extra Virgin Olive oils, berries.

While this pup is too young for a commercial grain free diet (at least, I wouldn't recommend a grain free kibble just yet), depending what she's eating, she could be switched away from more inflammatory grains (corn, wheat, white rice) to less inflammatory grains (brown rice) or even sweet potato which is anti-inflammatory. Same with proteins, from beef or lamb to chicken or fish.

This website is helpful for choosing (or supplementing) ingredients for a commercial food. http://www.nutritiondata.com

There is a lot we can do with diet and supplements to manage the body's tendency toward inflammation. If anti-inflammatories are still needed, the dose can be a lot lower then.

And you might emphasize to the owner that rest means rest. Serious rest. Walks on a leash to potty, then a lot of lounging around the house. There is no sense letting a pup hurt herself. Yes, she needs to release energy, but mental stimulation will do a good deal of that. Buster Cubes, Hide and Seek, I Qube, etc. And as Val said, a good night's sleep, which is possible if pup's brain is very tired.


Here's some links for your reading enjoyment:

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/91506.htm

http://www.jaspenhof.com/article/Panosteitis.pdf

http://leerburg.com/pano.htm
 

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Chuck, I think that Val is simply talking about Knox unflavored gelatin like you can buy in the Jello aisle at your grocery store? It's in an orange and white box, about 4x the size of a jello box (and for some reason, it always seems to be on the top shelf
)
 

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I would like to know why you think the pup is too young for a grain free diet? Or are you just specifying a commercial grain free diet? When I fed raw it was grain free, and when I didn't the food was grain free.

Some folks recommend Albon for pano. http://wsgenetics.info/puppy_packed.htm

I never had a problem with it until recently, or at least I think, because the limp came and when so quickly it may have been nothing at all, so I never actually tried it out.
 

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Commercial grain-free diet -- specifically kibble.

A raw (or home cooked) diet is fine for a pup, IMO. Kibbles are really dense, so with grain free kibbles, you can get numbers like 42% protein, 22% fat, 2.5% calcium, 1.4 phosphorus. That's from Instinct Kibble which is what I feed one of my adults, but other grain-free kibbles are similar (not exactly the same, but tend to be similar). That's high for a puppy. I wouldn't feed it to a pup under 1 year, or who still has a lot more growing to do. I know some people do. I wouldn't. I don't feed it to my beagle pup. I'd never feed it to to a larger breed dog, like my GSD.

Canned grain frees (Evo, canned Instinct) are lower because they're about 70-75% moisture. Not as nutrient dense. Raw and home-cooked diets are similar in that we're feeding a lot more water with the nutrients.

My beagle pup eats about 70% kibble, 30% raw. My GSD eats all raw. (I don't feed any grains other than what pup gets in her ALS kibble). My other adult eats Instinct with some homemade. I think raw and homemade diets are great and prefer them for any dog that can tolerate them.


I'll also add that I don't include Natural Balance as a true grain-free because its formulas are high in carbs. (I mean, I know they are "grain-free" but...) So you get numbers that I think tend to be too low for *active* pups: 21-ish% protein and 10% fat. If pup isn't very active, these can work, and are better than kibbles that are loaded with grains, esp the wrong grains. But for active puppies, I prefer something with higher nutrient values. For me, it's all about walking the tightrope between nutrient values and deciding which, if any, grains are ok for a while.
 

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Exactly what 3K9Mom posted. It comes in a box of packets or bulk in a box. I get the packets, I start slow, like 1/4 a packet 2 times a day. Mix with a little canned food or yogurt if the pup like yogurt. You can up that amount.

Not sure how many of you remember Janis Novak, she was on this board at one time and I believe she swore by giving gelatin to pups to help ears. Also for yeast infection of the ears she would paint the inside of the dogs ear with yogurt.

Some times the natural old home remedy's work just as good as modern day medicine.

Val
 

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Originally Posted By: 3K9MomCommercial grain-free diet -- specifically kibble.

A raw (or home cooked) diet is fine for a pup, IMO. Kibbles are really dense, so with grain free kibbles, you can get numbers like 42% protein, 22% fat, 2.5% calcium, 1.4 phosphorus. That's from Instinct Kibble which is what I feed one of my adults, but other grain-free kibbles are similar (not exactly the same, but tend to be similar). That's high for a puppy. I wouldn't feed it to a pup under 1 year, or who still has a lot more growing to do. I know some people do. I wouldn't. I don't feed it to my beagle pup. I'd never feed it to to a larger breed dog, like my GSD.

Canned grain frees (Evo, canned Instinct) are lower because they're about 70-75% moisture. Not as nutrient dense. Raw and home-cooked diets are similar in that we're feeding a lot more water with the nutrients.

My beagle pup eats about 70% kibble, 30% raw. My GSD eats all raw. (I don't feed any grains other than what pup gets in her ALS kibble). My other adult eats Instinct with some homemade. I think raw and homemade diets are great and prefer them for any dog that can tolerate them.


I'll also add that I don't include Natural Balance as a true grain-free because its formulas are high in carbs. (I mean, I know they are "grain-free" but...) So you get numbers that I think tend to be too low for *active* pups: 21-ish% protein and 10% fat. If pup isn't very active, these can work, and are better than kibbles that are loaded with grains, esp the wrong grains. But for active puppies, I prefer something with higher nutrient values. For me, it's all about walking the tightrope between nutrient values and deciding which, if any, grains are ok for a while.

Good to know. Never thought about that. I never feed puppy food, which I thought would help with the pano thing, but forgot to check the % of protein.
 

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Val I have heard of yogart to help ear infections before due to when we clean their ears we remove the good bacterial from their ears along with the not so good bacteria. So yogart is to put back good bacteria needed for healthy ears. but never heard of the gelatin thing before, see just learned something new today. LOL
 

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I'll tell you everything I know about pano in my dog. His limping around first showed up at about 5 months old. I'd never heard of pano until I read about it here. True to form it came and went seemingly at will. Never was there any palpable pain involved, ie you could never manipulate the leg in any way to elicit a response.
About a month later he began to limp again and it didn't go away in the usual week or so. So into the vet we go. Still no ability to "make it hurt when I do this". He prescribed Vetprofen (carprofen) 75mg. Within a week Mack was showing no signs of a limp. About a month ago he started limping again, this time there was considerable pain involved and he was acting as if the leg were paralyzed. He didn't put anu weight on it and within a week the shoulder muscles had actually started to atropy. Back to the vet we go. This time xrays are taken and pano is confirmed. Vet is very pleased with the xray and says it is textbook view of what pano is supposed to look like. He put him back on Vetprofen. He said we will manage it until he grows out of it by giving it until the limp goes away and he builds his muscle back up. If he starts limping again, give him Vetprofen until he stops limping. I asked if it was the same as Ibuprofen and he said it was except it was not nearly as hard on the stomache as vetprofen. It takes nearly a full week to make the limp go away entirely. Now I'll be watching for the limp to return and it probably won't take as long if I start it again as soon as it shows up. Vet said it might take until he is 2YO to grow out of it.
They refer to Vetprofen as a painkiller but it seems like the anti-inflamation properties are the major benefit to it for pano. Of course reliving the inflamation relieves the pain, so there you go.
 
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