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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Being rehomed by owner: Czech Working Lines 11 months very high prey drive seeking expert handler…located in private home.

Very high prey drive, affectionate adaptable and very well trained in obedience, by Massachusetts State Police K9 Unit trainer, bred by Maine State Trooper K-9 unit breeder; a Czech Working Line pure bred German Shepherd contact me if you are interested in this rescue.

I would drive across the country for this dog. But we are over our heads with this Czech Working Line (our Mass State Police trainer says we “gave him too much freedom” it’s not that we were not warned—by him—of that in advance; it’s our failure ). He’s 11 months and my husband (who has had a heart attack) got in the way of a fight with our unneutered standard poodle that sent my husband to the emergency room and he’s “done”. The 12 year old Pom has severe puncture wounds. The breeder has been contacted as he requested he’s “putting the word out” but he “has no room right now”.
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And the Vermont SP may also take the dog......

I would contact breeder again and tell him the situation - and that your husband is considering euthanasia

Too many people buy strong working line dogs who are not prepared for them.....too many breeders breed without true knowledge or a working outlet for the puppies.


Lee
 

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I googled about and found this article with a few suggestions:
It would seem the owner should go through a trainer and have the dog evaluated for police work. And a suggestion to contact search & rescue teams.
But it seems most agencies get their dogs directly from Europe or through trainers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I googled about and found this article with a few suggestions:
It would seem the owner should go through a trainer and have the dog evaluated for police work. And a suggestion to contact search & rescue teams.
But it seems most agencies get their dogs directly from Europe or through trainers.
The breeder is a trainer (for the police!!) and he has already been evaluated for police work and he is not police material according to two different trainers the other is with the Massachusetts State Police. He worked with Ragnar since he was small . The two people mentioned above have also put the word out in law enforcement and retired law enforcement circles; they are actively working on it too; I am reaching out to a tiny minority of people who understand Czech Working Lines.thank you for your understanding and suggestions I appreciate it
 

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The breeder is a trainer (for the police!!) and he has already been evaluated for police work and he is not police material according to two different trainers the other is with the Massachusetts State Police. He worked with Ragnar since he was small . The two people mentioned above have also put the word out in law enforcement and retired law enforcement circles; they are working; I am reaching out to a tiny minority of people who understand Czech Working Lines.thank you for your understanding and suggestions I appreciate it
That is an interesting assessment. Why is it they said he was unsuitable for police work? Can you describe his temperament beyond high prey drive? How is he with strangers? How does he handle new environments or strange surfaces? How is he with other dogs or around children? What training has he actually had? Is it just pet obedience? Do you have his pedigree?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That is an interesting assessment. Why is it they said he was unsuitable for police work? Can you describe his temperament beyond high prey drive? How is he with strangers? How does he handle new environments or strange surfaces? How is he with other dogs or around children? What training has he actually had? Is it just pet obedience? Do you have his pedigree?
I am not doing this publicly. I just put some information out to attract help from people truly familiar with Working Lines. If you are someone associated with police work and / or very experienced handling working lines particularly Czech then please PM me . He is very well socialized is good around everyone. If you want to get the assessments I received I am happy to give it to you in pm. But first I would also like to ask you some questions the web is awash with “experts”. This is not my first rodeo “obedience” “children” “strange surfaces”… he’s well trained and wonderful with everyone. He just sends people to the hospital once in a while. Talk to you soon
 

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There is a group called Throwaway dogs project out of PA/NJ area. If has a reasonable nerves and environmentals that might be an option. Could be single purpose only if not a real strong dog. Many dogs wash out of dual purpose but can still do bombs or drugs. They may have ideas or contacts. Sounds like he is not a good fit for typical family pet.
 

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But first I would also like to ask you some questions the web is awash with “experts”. This is not my first rodeo “obedience” “children” “strange surfaces”… he’s well trained and wonderful with everyone. He just sends people to the hospital once in a while. Talk to you soon
I respect that you are doing your due diligence in asking questions and that you don't know any of us. I respect that you would rather keep the information private instead of having everyone chime in with opinions on an evaluation. But we are trying to help you. So maybe be a little less abrasive when responding.

I sent you a PM, yesterday or the day before, asking for a pedigree and offering possible places in New England that could do an evaluation, obviously they will want to do their own evaluation as they should, and possibly help you place him. And you did not respond. So again, I'll just ask for his pedigree so I can see it and maybe suggest it to my contacts in the sport and LEO world.

Personally, I think trying to rehome a dog that will "just sends people to the hospital once in a while" on a pet forum is completely irresponsible.
 

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You may not like what I have to say and that is fine, but if the Mass State Police trainer said you gave him to much freedom (what ever that means) and he sent your husband to the hospital you are going to have a hard time rehoming him. As much as I would hate to see it happen you may just have to euthanize him.

There are very experienced GSD handlers on here who it appears have given you advice or suggestions, but it seems to me that you don't want to acknowledge them.

I'm curious as to why you and your husband choose a Czech WL GSD was there a specific reason for it? My understanding is and some please correct me if I am wrong that the Czech line are very prey driven which I think is why K-9 departments like them.
 

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I'm curious as to why you and your husband choose a Czech WL GSD was there a specific reason for it? My understanding is and some please correct me if I am wrong that the Czech line are very prey driven which I think is why K-9 departments like them.
Czech lines have a lot of aggression and suspicion and can be thin nerved. The dogs I know that police are buying are not that. They are stable with appropriate aggression. They do not like dog aggression either. They need dogs that can be controlled. The dogs I know are not a "line". They are dogs that can do the job. Police do not care about pedigrees as a general rule so I'm actually surprised that a whole state has a breeding program of dogs that were bred to hunt and destroy anyone trying to escape the soviet union. That's just a liability waiting to happen.
 

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Czech lines have a lot of aggression and suspicion and can be thin nerved. The dogs I know that police are buying are not that. They are stable with appropriate aggression. They do not like dog aggression either. They need dogs that can be controlled. The dogs I know are not a "line". They are dogs that can do the job. Police do not care about pedigrees as a general rule so I'm actually surprised that a whole state has a breeding program of dogs that were bred to hunt and destroy anyone trying to escape the soviet union. That's just a liability waiting to happen.
Thank you Jax08 for that information.
 

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I am not doing this publicly. I just put some information out to attract help from people truly familiar with Working Lines. If you are someone associated with police work and / or very experienced handling working lines particularly Czech then please PM me . He is very well socialized is good around everyone. If you want to get the assessments I received I am happy to give it to you in pm. But first I would also like to ask you some questions the web is awash with “experts”. This is not my first rodeo “obedience” “children” “strange surfaces”… he’s well trained and wonderful with everyone. He just sends people to the hospital once in a while. Talk to you soon
I sent you a pm with the same questions I asked here. I’m going to try to keep this productive. A couple things. A sharp dog that has put his owner in the hospital but doesn’t have the temperament to work will be very difficult to place. The reality is people who can handle that type of temperament typically aren’t looking for a dog that doesn’t work. If two police trainers have already assessed him and deemed him unsuitable for the work, I don’t know what you expect to accomplish by repeatedly going down the same road. Those issues that prevent him from being a good police dog candidate have a good chance to prevent him from being a good sport candidate. When you look at dogs that trend towards a certain type of temperament, it’s hard to home them when they can’t work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I googled about and found this article with a few suggestions:
It would seem the owner should go through a trainer and have the dog evaluated for police work. And a suggestion to contact search & rescue teams.
But it seems most agencies get their dogs directly from Europe or through trainers.
The breeder is a trainer and a member of the police. Ragnars parents and multiple siblings are in the force and his parents are imports but yes that’s an excellent suggestion thank you
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I sent you a pm with the same questions I asked here. I’m going to try to keep this productive. A couple things. A sharp dog that has put his owner in the hospital but doesn’t have the temperament to work will be very difficult to place. The reality is people who can handle that type of temperament typically aren’t looking for a dog that doesn’t work. If two police trainers have already assessed him and deemed him unsuitable for the work, I don’t know what you expect to accomplish by repeatedly going down the same road. Those issues that prevent him from being a good police dog candidate have a good chance to prevent him from being a good sport candidate. When you look at dogs that trend towards a certain type of temperament, it’s hard to home them when they can’t work.
So if all the above is the case are you suggesting he be put down? I understand the window of who might take him is very small. The two trainers do have different ideas though as to what makes a police dog…it’s complicated. One has written him off completely “too much freedom” ; “too insecure” ; but they each have different methods of training…I have a contract where the breeder takes him back and I have contacted him first. But right now he “has no room” and is talking to his contacts in the Mass State Police
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Czech lines have a lot of aggression and suspicion and can be thin nerved. The dogs I know that police are buying are not that. They are stable with appropriate aggression. They do not like dog aggression either. They need dogs that can be controlled. The dogs I know are not a "line". They are dogs that can do the job. Police do not care about pedigrees as a general rule so I'm actually surprised that a whole state has a breeding program of dogs that were bred to hunt and destroy anyone trying to escape the soviet union. That's just a liability waiting to happen.
I know that’s exactly right. That’s precisely the problem that my Mass State Police trainer had when I showed up with him. He had suggested a certain breeder that breeds DDR working lines for the force…I came up with Ragnar on my own instead as I had just lost my (6th) German shepherd from intestinal torsion at just 18 months old and Ragnars litter came available. I did not do my homework on Czech dogs. My Mass State Police trainer had a lot to say about that especially when he met the dog at 5 months. The other breeder trainer obviously loves the Czech lines because he breeds them (they are in the force elsewhere I don’t want to make a public spectacle of that good man) but I am definitely over my head. It’s a very special situation with Czech dogs…they were brought back from not being all the things you mention above that are desirable qualities for police work this is a steep learning curve for me and an exercise in learning how to listen for cues and clews thank you for your statements here I appreciate your engagement. My goal is to stop the bleeding (including Ragnars) I want everyone safe but I DO NOT want him put down
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I respect that you are doing your due diligence in asking questions and that you don't know any of us. I respect that you would rather keep the information private instead of having everyone chime in with opinions on an evaluation. But we are trying to help you. So maybe be a little less abrasive when responding.

I sent you a PM, yesterday or the day before, asking for a pedigree and offering possible places in New England that could do an evaluation, obviously they will want to do their own evaluation as they should, and possibly help you place him. And you did not respond. So again, I'll just ask for his pedigree so I can see it and maybe suggest it to my contacts in the sport and LEO world.

Personally, I think trying to rehome a dog that will "just sends people to the hospital once in a while" on a pet forum is completely irresponsible.
I don’t have the pedigree as he is not neutered yet. The breeder contract says I get his papers after he is neutered. But I believe both his parents pedigrees are widely available. I have met his parents and I know his dogs routinely place with State Troopers. I do want help but I felt that at times I am being approached here as if I were someone who has willfully mishandled dogs and am “on the stand” for that . There are upfront demands for details that might make my breeder who is a good man and respected in the police force look bad. If that felt abrasive to anyone I am genuinely sorry. I don’t want to come across like that. But I felt a lot of presumptions and accusations flying at me from the moment I set foot in this forum; as if I were one of those people who got a GSD without knowing anything about them and then dumps their dog; I hope it’s clear that we did have some serious events here despite our best efforts (including a whole lot of expensive training) I may have been defensive about this for which I sincerely apologize. again I hope we can get past my tone and you will continue to try to help save this situation with your knowledge and connections, whoever has those. But that does not mean that as you suggest I wont be checking out what’s what and who’s who here as I am new to this forum and to blogging in general.
 

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One has written him off completely “too much freedom” ; “too insecure” ; but they each have different methods of training…
The “too much freedom part doesn’t really matter as to him being a working dog or not. If someone was buying him to train they would set the boundaries on their own during training. It’s not relevant to his working ability. The insecure part is what matters. That is also the part that can make it hard to be a sport prospect or rehome, depending on what he meant by it. That’s one of the things I was asking.
So if all the above is the case are you suggesting he be put down?
I’m telling he isn’t a simple dog to place. It goes back to what Lee said earlier.
 

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There are upfront demands for details that might make my breeder who is a good man and respected in the police force look bad.
All of the questions asked are basic questions that would come up from anyone looking to take him in. It’s not some third degree. I would ask the same questions of anyone posting about rehoming a dog and it’s not personal to you. A couple things about the breeder. One I’m not really concerned with who he is. For one I know very well what you can end up with when you breed for suspicion and aggression. I know of a dog from a pedigree that could have made a phenomenal dog who turned out to be a nervy dog washed from sports and unfit for any working roles. The other thing is the breeder bred the dog. He put his kennel name on the dog. Breeders have to own the good that comes from their programs just like the bad. How it affects his reputation isn’t really relevant to rehoming the dog. Knowing the dogs pedigree is.
I don’t have the pedigree as he is not neutered yet. The breeder contract says I get his papers after he is neutered.
This I will tell you is an actual red flag. You didn’t ask for breeder advice here so I won’t address that further unless you want. The next question would be why the breeder said the dog needed to be neutered. No one is holding anything against you. Everything being asked here is geared towards helping find the dog a home.
 
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