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Discussion Starter #1
I have noticed something with Mas which has me concerned. Maybe someone has experienced this and can point me in the right direction. I will try to explain this the best I can:

On occasion, but more commonly today, Mas will go into an abrupt sit like position, it is like he is dropping his back end to the ground. It is not the usual sit position where his butt is barley touching the ground, it’s almost like a scooting thing, only he does not scoot. He seems to have difficulty initially getting up, but he does. I do help him get up and he does it fairly quickly, I have also watched to see if can get up on his own and he does and then carries on walking. He has arthritis and has had muscle deterioration of his back legs, which we have build back up over the last 18 months.

Here is a picture similar to the the position I am referring to:

 

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Poor Mas!
This happens to Chama too except that all 4 of her legs go out from under her and she just splats on the floor. What you're seeing with Mas is very common for dogs with DM and weakness in the hind end.

Do you have one of those special harnesses for him with the suitcase type handle? That would be worth getting. Chama wears a really nice regular harness with a suitcase handle and I use it to help her up and down hills and stairs when necessary. I also use it for picking her up when she splats on the ice too.
 

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there is probably more going on than just arthritis. i think we all can relate to something like this with our seniors. nerves get compressed in areas and can cause weird things like splayed legs standing, weird sitting positions, etc. spondylosis. cauda equine, disc problems all of those can cause weird placement of sitting, standing, etc.
has your guy been diagnosed with any of these? or is it just arthritic hip issues? does he get Adaquin? joint supplements, etc?
how old is he?

debbie
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Ruth, I really appreciate your reply. I forgot to add earlier that sometimes when I lift Mas’s tail he goes down fast. So something is connected there with his backend issues. I need to make an appointment this week for a cartrofen injection so I will have the vet check it out further. I am really petrified of Mas having DM or any other disease for that matter. I can’t stand this old age business, he has been considered a senior for almost 2 years now and I still can’t get used to it


I did buy a harness for Mas back in January after reading one of Jean’s posts. I searched for one like on handicapped pets but they were only available online, I didn’t want to wait and I have a hard time fitting Mas since is chest is so deep. I have a regular harness with the handle, probably like Chama’s

Debbie, I agree, I think that is is more than the arthritis. Mas will be 11 in April. He has not been diagnosed with anything else as of yet. I was just reading up on spondylosis and will check that out with the vet. He is getting medi-cam, though I was not giving it to him regularly, I will start now. He gets Nikken Joint daily and he just finished off his Sasha's Blend. I have decided to hold off on that for now. I will go back to the gluc/chon/msm that he was getting before.

I have noticed that since I swtched him Orijen he is standing up much straighter (along with the great coat & eating much better)
 

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I answered this post only to discover I misread it and had to delete my initial response. When I looked at the picture I was looking at him being so pretty, not at the way he was sitting.

Ringer does this sometimes, he sits with his back leg/s straight out - similar to what Mas is doing in the picturue. Usually he rights himself but not always, sometimes I have to help him stand up. I've always attributed it to his other problems he's having, disc problems, weakness in the rear, etc. It gets better for a while after he has his Bowen Therapy, but it's getting worse as time goes by.

Give Mas a hug!!!
 

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It is very difficult to watch all the changes as they age. Sometimes when Chama's legs go out from under her she just lies there for a second with a very confused look on her face. It's hard for me to see but she does seem to handle everything with aplomb.
 

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Originally Posted By: ArycrestI answered this post only to discover I misread it and had to delete my initial response. When I looked at the picture I was looking at him being so pretty, not at the way he was sitting.
Mas sure is handsome, isn't he!
 

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Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowIt is very difficult to watch all the changes as they age. Sometimes when Chama's legs go out from under her she just lies there for a second with a very confused look on her face. It's hard for me to see but she does seem to handle everything with aplomb.
I know what you mean. Growing old sucks, but like I always say, it's better than the alternative. It really hurts watching them age, seeing once virile animals having problems standing or placing their legs properly, etc. Like you say, they handle it with dignity.

My old guys still misbehave by fence fighting with the dogs next door - in a way it's sad to watch them run in slow motion or kind of gimpy sometimes, but in a way I'm glad they feel good enough to do it.

Everyday Ringer likes to play with his Cuz, SQUEEK SQUEEK SQUEEK - it drives me nuts - I usually go in the house to get away from the noise. He even enjoys playing fetch. I'm a terrible ball thrower so when I throw the Cuz it never goes very far and he's able to "run" over and get it. Sometimes he likes to play keep away and I pretend I can't catch him, of course when he was younger, I couldn't catch him when we were playing.

I'm just thankful everyday that I still have them, enjoy our time together.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Originally Posted By: Arycrest Give Mas a hug!!!
Done!


Ruth & Gayle you have both settled me a bit, this is yet another senior moment I am experiencing and knew that Mas's senior pals would come through.

Gayle same thing happening here with Mas, he has been doing well with it, but it is becoming more common now. Our walks are ridiculously small, lucky for us there are several ways to walk around the block (which consists of 4-6 houses). Oh and tonight Mas did his usual "no fly zone" enforcement dance in the backyard when a bird fly by. I was happy to see it, considering there are times when he just watched them, but I see his body tensing up. And yes, I am most grateful that he is here with me.

Steph...
 

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You know, I look at the aging Barker Sisters and I see the young dogs, too. I remember bringing each of them home and how they reacted to the senior dog of the outfit. I remember how incredibly fast my eldest was in her youth. I remember their exhuberance and the joy they've brought me. I'll take those slow short walks. I'll drive 40 miles to ride 20 minutes. And I'll wonder what's next for us.

It's good deal.
 

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i would definitely add Adaquin to his regiman. its helped toby ALOT. any dog with arthritic conditions can benifit from it.

more than likely its one of the things i mentioned, which as i said most of them get eventually.

alternatives, good diet, supplements, etc, do help preserve things.
moderate daily activity is so important for them, as with any arthritic condition basically its "move it or lose it" especially since they also loose muscle mass as they age.

debbie
 

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also wanted to let you know that metacam is now in peoples form its called meloxicam. my vet calls in a prescription for me at walmart.
i get a 30 day supply for 4.00 .............metacam is expensive, so this is quite a savings. meloxicam comes in pill form as well.
your vet should be able to call this in for you.

debbie
 

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Oh Mas!!! I also was looking at his handsomeness and not the sit!

Nina has a very unladylike sit. My vet said it's an arthritis thing. She's got a tad of the spondylosis, one hip has arthritis and one knee does. I think it's like us when we get a little sore and shift positions to find one that may not look so nice, but feels good.

How does the cartrophen work? I have heard it's great (not available in the US) but my bias is with Adequan and if THAT works it makes an amazing difference. After Kramer bloated he was off for over a month and started to sag a bit in the end. But back to normal now.

Kramer does not sit at all anymore. It's stand or laying down. Every once in a while he'll go back into a sit but you can see it's not comfy. I think that could be-my guess-the spondylosis? He has a huge section fused. (he says, hey lady, I'm 15, what the heck do you want from me?) So I guess it's good that they can still sit? I was kind of suprised by the no sit thing...but again the Adequan is the thing I have been happiest with.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Debbie, the Metacam bottle says meloxicam right on it, so I will definately be asking Mas's vet for the 'human' version. Metacam is stupid expensive!

Jean, the cartrophen is great indeed. Same thing with Mas, starts to sag, then within 48 hours of the cartrophen he is fully up again. Is adequin the same as cartrophen?

Lisa, no he has not had any chiro. I will check into it. I really think there is more to this than just the arthritis.

We have an appointment with the vet on Saturday, I will be sure to take my list of questions and concerns with me


A couple of weeks ago we were at the vet and I noticed Mas was walking very odd. It was like his front paws were flippers! He had both paws right up to his ankles on the ground, my eyes must of bulged out of my head when I saw that. I am very glad that I was in the vet's office when I noticed it, or it would have been another emerg run. Vet said that it is the arthritis moving into the front


I know I can't turn back time and have my punk pup back, actually don't really know that I would want to. All I want is for Mas to be pain free and happy, he has earned it and he certainly deserves it.
 

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My cousins' chocolate lab had very severe arthritis. He flopped along like you describe, throwing one leg in front of the other. He was still happy as a clam though and given the chance would walk over to the neighbor's farm to get into the trash!

I am now giving Chama this herbal mix called, "Get Up and Go." It is working well. Yesterday she was run over by a sled at the park and today was fine and has already taken two good walks. It's got tumeric and feverfew and cayenne and some other anti-inflammatory herbs in it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow
I am now giving Chama this herbal mix called, "Get Up and Go." It is working well. Yesterday she was run over by a sled at the park and today was fine and has already taken two good walks. It's got tumeric and feverfew and cayenne and some other anti-inflammatory herbs in it.
YIKES! Poor Chama, I had to read that twice


Ruth, I was going to ask you in my previous post about what alternative meds you would recommend to place the metacam? I just don't want to prolong any pain for Mas while I experiment with meds either. You think I can get the Get Up and Go here?
 

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Debbie,
That metacam suggestion is terrific! I'm going to talk to my vet about doing that.

Has anyone tried PST therapy. Here's a little blurb on it:

Quote:pulsed Signal Therapy (PST) is a unique therapy that has been developed and patented in the United States to treat patients with arthritis, back and joint pain. PST is a non-invasive therapy that promotes new bone and cartilage growth. CRCG is excited to be able to offer this wonderful therapy that improves the quality of life for so many pets. We have one of only a very few PST machines in Colorado. More info on PST >>>

Geriatric Physical Therapy

In humans, geriatric physical therapy covers a wide area of issues addressing normal adult aging, but is usually focused on a much older person. Many conditions affect humans as they age and include but are not limited to: Arthritis, osteoporosis, cancer, hip and joint replacement, balance disorders, incontinence and more.

Geriatric physical therapy helps those affected by such problems in developing a specialized program to help restore mobility, reduce pain, increase fitness levels and more.

Canine rehabilitation addresses many of the same conditions in geriatric dogs and is also focused on improving or maintaining mobility, decreasing pain, and providing opportunities to enhance a dog's overall fitness.

Key Uses
Arthritis, rear-leg weakness, degenerative myelopathy, decreased activity tolerance, and incontinence.

Clinical Applications
Massage, stretches, supervised exercise, hydrotherapy and owner instruction
You have to take them 9 days in a row. The treatments have to be within 24 hours of each other (or at least more than 8 hours). We've tried the adequan and it had no effect on Max. I'm trying to find something to make him more comfortable without giving him more drugs. I'm willing to try this, but it's really expensive and I want to do some research before I go any further. Any input is greatly appreciated!

It is heartbreaking to see them age, but like so many of you, I'm grateful for every day I have.
 

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happy to spread the word about the Meloxicam. god knows its expensive enough keeping our seniors going! i am sure alot of vets don't spill the beans about this med because they retail the metacam and get a huge profit on it. thankfully my vet understands the financial side of being a pet owner.


GSD10,
adaquin is a shot they give for arthritic issues. its not a drug like the meloxicam, its a concentrated form of (glycosamine) given by the way of a shot its more effective, more concentrated. its been used on lame horses for years.
your vet should offer this, usually the techs can do it, and they don't charge an office visit. you can also be taught to do it yourself. its a muscle shot so if your not squeamish about administering shots its really not to bad. but, if you choose to do this (which i HIGHLY recommend), there is an initial loading dose every 5-7 days for the first month, then once a month.

debbie
 
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