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Discussion Starter #1
I have been feeding Diamond Naturals Adult Chicken and Rice for a number of years. And for the most part it is doing OK -- B- to C+.

But once again, I have skinny dogs. Not all of them. Babs and Odie and Bear are thick. So are Ninja and Milla. I have had Odie on a starvation diet, and I got her down to 78 pounds, and where she probably should weigh no more than 74 pounds, I can see a waistline from the top and from the side now. Babs is just embarassing. She is fat. And I can't seem to take it off of her, and I do not have the heart to not give her stuff when her eyeballs reach into me. And, she is in with Quinnie, who is one of my skinnies.

Why are they skinny? Cujo2, Hepsi, Ramona, and Quinnie. They are young. And they are not, for the most part chow-hounds. Quinnie will leave her food in the dish all night and Babs will get to it the next morning. Ramona eats. She's in with Karma. But if I feed her more, they will have liquid poop. Cujo2 and Hepsi are in with each other, and neither of them are all that interested in the food.

So, at the grand opening of this Pet Value, I picked up a couple of bags of Merrick, Rabbit and Venison or Turkey. Not sure. But I went half and half with the DN, and I found that Cujo2 likes Rabbit, but not the Turkey. And Joy likes the Turkey but not the rabbit. I am so not doing this. And then I found that Merrick was bought by someone who was bought by someone else, and well, I finished up the bags, and the dogs were pretty much back to where they were on DNs, by the time we finished them.

I went back to Pet Value, and Earthborn Holistic was on sale for $15 off per bag for the 28 pounders. I checked the ingredients, and looked at the calories -- a little more on calories than the Diamond, but not 12 pounds worth. Not close. Evenso, I put the bags in my cart because it was a good sale, and got $3 more off because the guy at the checkout had coupons. Good. So I paid $38/bag. I then went to TSC for some DN to mix with it, and found they sell the stuff too, for about $5 cheaper. So I was only saving $13. Kind of took the wind out of my sails.

This time I opened a bag of Bison and a bag of Turkey/Chicken and fed 1/3 of each along with the DN. My dogs are eating. All of them. Babs and Quinnie are being a little less interested. But everyone else is eating like I never fed them before.

Poop is better too. The semi-formed mush piles are not turds. I know, sounds gross, but poop is important.

I am also finding that I am feeding a little less. I can feed a bag of DM and two bags of the DN and it lasts about a week for 15 dogs. Give or take.

So I was running out, I opened my last bag of DN and I had two bags of EH. So I went back to Pet Value. Just before they closed. And the sale was off, and there were no other reasonable sales. I mean, if they had Praire Raw Instict on sale or Wellness Core on a big sale, or any number of the better foods, I might have switched them again to see how they took to that stuff. But no chance. So the guy told me he had some coupons for the EH. And I was hurting, but since I had nearly enough for one week, I just needed to buy food for a week out of this check, so I put a couple of bags in the cart, and then a third. And decided on a fourth, thinking I would still pick up the DN. But then the guy said since I am buying in bulk I get 20% off. I put 2 more bags on my over-loaded cart. Then he told me they would price match with TSC. DEAL!!!

So I got the EH for 38$/bag/ I bought two each of lamb, turkey/chicken, and Bison. After I finish this back of DN, I am going to feed just the EH, all three flavors -- I am crazy like that.

Knocked off everything after salt to save space.

Ingredients:
Bison Meal, Peas, Pea Protein, Tapioca, Dried Egg Product, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flaxseed, Lamb Meal, Pea Fiber, Natural Flavors, Blueberries, Cranberries, Apples, Carrots, Spinach, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Taurine, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Salt, ...


Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 34.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 18.00%
Crude Fiber (max.) 4.00%
Moisture (max.) 10.00%
Calcium (min.) 1.50%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.10%
Vitamin E (min.) 250 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (min.) 100 mg/kg
L-Carnitine (min.) 50 mg/kg
Taurine (min.) 0.05%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids (min.) 2.60%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min.) 1.90%
Docasahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (min.) 0.20%
Caloric Content:
Metabolizable Energy (ME) 3,675 kcal/kg,430 kcal/cup
Ingredients:
Lamb Meal, Peas, Tapioca, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Pea Protein, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Natural Flavors, Blueberries, Cranberries, Apples, Carrots, Spinach, Salt, ...


Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 26.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 15.00%
Crude Fiber (max.) 5.00%
Moisture (max.) 10.00%
Calcium (min.) 1.20%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.00%
Vitamin E (min.) 250 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (min.) 100 mg/kg
L-Carnitine (min.) 50 mg/kg
Beta-Carotene (min.) 5 mg/kg
Taurine (min.) 0.05%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids (min.) 2.10%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min.) 1.70%
Caloric Content:
Metabolizable Energy (ME) 3,520 kcal/kg,400 kcal/cup


and,
Ingredients:
Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Whitefish Meal, Dried Egg Product, Tomato Pomace, Peas, Blueberries, Cranberries, Apples, Carrots, Spinach, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Taurine, Beta-Carotene, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Folic Aid, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Salt, ...


Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 38.00%
Crude Fat (min.) 20.00%
Crude Fiber (max.) 2.50%
Moisture (max.) 10.00%
Calcium (min.) 1.50%
Phosphorus (min.) 1.00%
Vitamin E (min.) 250 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (min.) 100 mg/kg
L-Carnitine (min.) 50 mg/kg
Beta-Carotene (min.) 5 mg/kg
Taurine (min.) 0.05%
Omega-6 Fatty Acids (min.) 3.30%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min.) 0.40%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (min.) 0.05%
Caloric Content:
Metabolizable Energy (ME) 3,800 kcal/kg,445 kcal/cup


So, If I will be feeding 1/3 of each of these, then protein will be 32.67%, fat will be 17.6%. Calories will be 425kcal/cup.



What I was feeding:
Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Brown Rice, Peas, Cracked Pearled Barley, Pea Flour, Chicken Fat, Dried Beet Pulp, Egg Product, Natural Flavor, Fish Meal, Flaxseed, Salmon Oil (Source Of Dha), Potassium Chloride, Salt, ...


Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 16.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%
DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid) 0.05%
Zinc (min.) 150 mg/kg
Selenium (min.) 0.3 mg/kg
Vitamin E (min.) 150 IU/kg
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (min.) 2.5%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (min.) 0.4%
Total Microorganisms* Not Less Than 1,000,000 CFU/lb (Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium animalis, Lactobacillus reuteri)
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.
Caloric Content:
Metabolizable Energy (ME) 3,708 kcal/kg (368 kcal/cup).


So, a little higher in protein -- 6%, 1.6% higher in fat, Calories 57kcal/cup more. Higher in fiber, which would be a problem if I had an EPI dog. But I don't have an EPI dog.



So, anyone see any problem with feeding all three types, and knock down the amounts for my fatter dogs -- 2 cups/day, and keep the younger thinner ones at 3 cups. And the boys at 4 cups. More vitamin E, and they list vitamin C.



Coats are looking nicer, and they were getting harsh is probably the best word for it. Now they are sleeker, especially on the youngsters. I think the older ones are looking better though too. I hope so. I wouldn't want to go with canola oil over Chicken fat, but there seems to be enough fat and meat. Maybe.
 

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What a great diet and at bargain prices with enough variety to please every one of your dog's tastes and suitable to their different ages and metabolisms.
 

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Newlie has been on Earthborne Great Plains Feast (bison) for at least several years now and he loves it. However, in all honesty, he has eaten well on any dog food I ever gave him, but I do think he is less itchy on this. I sure do wish I could find those prices, though. Selzer, you might check, I get $3 back any time I bring the bag back to the store. My understanding is that the store ships the bags back to the manufacturer and are then reimbursed.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
What a great diet and at bargain prices with enough variety to please every one of your dog's tastes and suitable to their different ages and metabolisms.
That's what I am hoping for. It seems that others are rotating the varieties. I suppose that would help dogs that get bored with the same food all the time.

I almost think that is what is going on with some of mine. Maybe. And maybe, this food is fresher and the dogs can smell/taste better ingredients.

I just home I am not getting suckered again. Dog food is such a racket and there are so many marketing ploys. A fool and his money are soon parted -- I had my lot on Kumpi for over a year, LOL. Ah well, I have heard good stuff about this food for quite a while. Here's hoping.

They say dogs are ok with the same food all the time. And dog food is gross tasting, but then dogs will eat poop. So, there's no accounting for taste. On the other hand, the dog's olfactory is hundreds of times better than ours, which follows that they do taste and like stuff that tastes good. They certainly love people food.

Let's see, I've fed,
Iams, but Dubya did not do well on that, so I switched to something without corn, chicken, or wheat in it.

Diamond lamb and rice (during the recall with the aflo-toxin, but that had to do with corn, and my dogs were ok.

I went to Nutro, and then the big one hit. And yes, both the cans and the bags were affected. I lost Whitney to that -- she was affected worse than the others, and had kidney problems constantly, and finally succumbed to something digestive in nature. And I lost half a litter from it as well. Arwen would not eat the food. She had 14 puppies in her and she wouldn't eat. I was mixing canned food with dry to get her to eat. That was supposed to make it much worse. But that info did not come out until it all broke in February. I still had some cans from then, and both the ultra and the max cans were in the bad lots. After it did break, I called several times asking if the dry food was affected and they said No. But it was. Later they agreed. By then, though I had lost half the litter before they were born and Whit was one of those puppies.

I then went to Canidae -- All life stages, and fed that for a few years. Then all my dogs got sick on that -- they changed their formula.

I went to wellness Core, and solid gold Barking at the moon, and Prarie Raw Instinct. I fed the Evanger canned dog food, but my dogs kept losing weight.

Kumpi did put weight on them. My house began to look like a hoarder's though. All those boxes, one for each bag. And if you don't break them down and get rid of them, they add up real quick.

I went from Kumpi to 4Health for about 2 weeks, and then Diamond Naturals.

When am I going to give up on dog food and just feed raw food? If I had a freezer...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, yes. I am being suckered. You can't just look at the kcal/cup, you have to do the math and look at kcal/kg. Because then you figure out how many cups you have in a bag. See, if you average each of the three EH bags, then you get 3,6654 kcal/kg. And Diamond Naturals has 3, 708kcal/kg. this means that the weight of the two cup measure that I use to feed the dogs, is different, heavier, more dense kibble, gives you 425kcal/cup, over the DN 368 kcal/cup.

But the bags of EH will have fewer cups per pound, than DN.

I am feeding less on the whole. Odie is getting 2 cups, and Kojak and Cujo 4 cups, and Ramona, Karma, Hepsi, and Lassie are getting 3, and all the rest of my girls are getting 2 cups. With DN, I was feeding 3 cups to most of the girls and only 1 or 2 got 2 cups, and the boys got between 5 and 5 cups, and the skinny girls 4 cups.

So anyway, when you do the math, you get something like 4.58 cups/pound of the DN, and 183.2 cups/bag (which costs about 33-36 dollars). And because the dogs consume 48 cups of this per day, that's 3.61 days per bag.

The EH as mixed (by me) has 3.92 cups/pound, which is 104.76 cups/bag (which costs $38. And the dogs eat 38 cups per day, so that means 2.76 days per bag.

That's on paper. For some reason I was definitely feeding 3 bags of the DN each week, and I am currently feeding 3 bags of the EH. I was throwing away a LOT of the DN. and I am throwing away NONE of the EH. Feeding time is exciting to the dogs, and dishes are clean before I am finished. I kind of like that.

Coats look better. The dogs seem healthier -- I hope that isn't just wishful thinking. Odie got one of those nasty zit things on her face, and I popped it today. Gross. Otherwise though, there are zero skin issues -- and a couple of them, Heidi and Odie and Babs had some hot spotty stuff going on before I switched, to the extent that Babs and Heidi had theirs shaved by the vet -- not the whole back but where the spot was -- that stuff is gone and hair grown back. You wouldn't know it happened. I kind of like that.

Babs is fatter than ever. Odie is getting a waist-line and looks good. Ninja, Milla, and Bear look to have lost a little weight -- they look better. Heidi, Jenna, Joy, look perfect. Cujo, Hepsi, Karma, and Ramona are a still skinny. I am going to try to weigh everyone tomorrow (if I can get out of bed in time -- Indians are playing late tonight).

Poop is much better (solid) and much less -- less garbage in, less garbage out. But Lassie poops right under my bedroom air conditioner, and it can be quite ripe, waking up from a sound sleep --uhg!!!

In short, with the benefits of price-matching and bulk buying, I am not paying that much more than I did with the DN, and the dogs are definitely benefiting from the change.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I managed to get Odie, Lassie and Kojak, Babsy and Quinnie, Karma and Ramona, and Cujo2 and Hepsi in to be weighed today. Then I ran out of time, since the vet is only open until noon.

Kojak lost 3.5 pounds. Lassie gained .8 pounds, Odie lost about a pound. Babsy lost 2 pounds -- good. Quinnie lost 3, Bad Quinn! Karma lost a bunch, and Ramona almost a pound. Bumping them up. Bumping Cujo and Hepsi up too.

So now I am adding 5-6 cups per day, and will weight them again the beginning of November.

The thing is, they were having some un-groomed rough look about them on the other food. Now they look vibrant. Even the skinny ones look good. Cujo and Hepsi and Karma look like they need a few pounds though. So I will try to make that happen. I like that the food is going away, and I am not pitching it. But, if Karma does not gain weight by November, I might have to change her food. Maybe she needs the grain to soak the fat and calories. I dunno. I don't like how much weight she has lost though. Could be SIBO or something like that too. I don't think EPI. She's gone from 60 to 53 something in almost two months. I don't like that.
 

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That's really informative how you've done the math and went beyond the price of the bag of food to the actual cost per serving. It's super that all your gsds are doing well on the diet except for Karma's weight loss. I find your comment interesting that perhaps she does need the grain and fat. Though maybe feeding her more of the new diet will help.
 
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