German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Who knew the search for finding a good gsd breeder would be so difficult? The more I get into the research the harder it gets to trust a breeder, lol.
Anyways first post here and hopefully many more to follow when I add a new member to the family.
I am in my 30s/single/active located in Ontario, Canada and trying to find a legitimate breeder that does West German and DDR mix or pure DDRs (I don’t know if pure ddrs even exist anymore ?). Ideally, I would like a gsd with no back slope and red/black pigmented coat but definitely health and temperament will come before looks/color. I am NOT looking for a family pet to show off at the park but more of a partner/protector type dog.
So my first question is; are you guys familiar with any Canadian breeders that actually follows SV rules and can show proof of doing so? Or a breeder with a current imported DDR stud? Not just a paragraph saying basically we try to follow….
If yes I would appreciate it if you share their contact info with me.
Secondly if anyone here actually imported a gsd from Germany themselves please share your experience with me. Who are they? What made you decide to work with them.
Sorry about the essay, I tried really hard to keep it short lol. I appreciate any help I could get
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,788 Posts
Who knew the search for finding a good gsd breeder would be so difficult? The more I get into the research the harder it gets to trust a breeder, lol.
Anyways first post here and hopefully many more to follow when I add a new member to the family.
I am in my 30s/single/active located in Ontario, Canada and trying to find a legitimate breeder that does West German and DDR mix or pure DDRs (I don’t know if pure ddrs even exist anymore ?). Ideally, I would like a gsd with no back slope and red/black pigmented coat but definitely health and temperament will come before looks/color. I am NOT looking for a family pet to show off at the park but more of a partner/protector type dog.
So my first question is; are you guys familiar with any Canadian breeders that actually follows SV rules and can show proof of doing so? Or a breeder with a current imported DDR stud? Not just a paragraph saying basically we try to follow….
If yes I would appreciate it if you share their contact info with me.
Secondly if anyone here actually imported a gsd from Germany themselves please share your experience with me. Who are they? What made you decide to work with them.
Sorry about the essay, I tried really hard to keep it short lol. I appreciate any help I could get
It is short! You should see some of the posts!

Can you elaborate on what you are looking for in a dog? A hiking/camping buddy? Are you into dog sports? Or showing? We have some forum members that are in Ontario and familiar with breeders here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
856 Posts
If you want a breeder that follows and breeds to SV standards and ideally want a Black and Red, then you are essentially asking for a WGSL but want a DDR mixed in there for protection purposes, from the way I'm reading it.

All GSD's have a slope. Anyone who tries to tell you differently does not know the breed. The term "straight back" is not used by legitimate breeders because they understand German Shepherd structure and anatomy. There will always be angulation in the croup, and because GSDs are stacked in a 3 point stack, there will always be a slope depending on the angulation in the back foot (how close the hock comes to touching the ground). There are some dogs that are bred to have a very severe slope, and I think that's what you are trying to avoid. But it's not easy to simply tell back structure by a 3 point stacked photo and deem a dog "not straight backed" when you're new to the breed - this is the exact same dog in different stack positions:




If you are looking for a true protection dog, then you are looking at $$$. But if you're looking for a deterrent, you don't need a DDR. Every GSD is a great deterrent in not only looks, but their big deep barks. My girl has sent people screaming just by walking by, and she's a huge sweet heart. But she also has a menacing bark, and if I take her into a store, people will literally walk the store peripherals to stay away from her.

Importing from Germany without having close contacts to the breeders there can also be a gamble. There are so many incredible breeders in Canada and the US that will have what you're looking for, I promise. Importing is rarely the answer unless you have some solid connections to take advantage of to begin with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Hey, there! Welcome to the search! Unfortunately, there are more poor breeders out there than quality ethical ones. So sometimes the search can get a bit discouraging, but they are out there!

First and foremost, what are you looking to do with your dog and why do you want a DDR and/or West German Working line as opposed to another line? Each line has their differences, positives and negatives. While there are a few breeders out there who are working to preserve the DDR lines, there are not a lot. And many of them tend to mix their DDR lines with Czech and West German lines.

As far as breeders with some solid DDR dogs who breed to standard, Weberhaus and SentinelHarts come to mind. Though, I don't know if you will find a full DDR breeding from either. I'm actually bringing home a Weberhaus pup later this year. :)

Regarding the sloped back comment, Femfa is correct. The SV standard actually calls for some angulation in the dog and no well bred GSD will be without angulation. The appearance of a "slope" is usually amplified by the 3 point show stack that you see many GSDs in for photos, but every GSD should have some measure of angulation due to length of the back legs and croup, etc.

Happy searching!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sabis mom

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
It is short! You should see some of the posts!

Can you elaborate on what you are looking for in a dog? A hiking/camping buddy? Are you into dog sports? Or showing? We have some forum members that are in Ontario and familiar with breeders here.

I am trying to read as many articles as I can right now. I need to start visiting breeders to actually see the lines in person as appose to just pictures.

I mainly go camping alone in the bush and I want some help/protection from predators. Secondly house protection. At this time the reason I am interested in adopting is not showing/sports but I really don't know how involved I might become with dog sports in the future. thx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
If you want a breeder that follows and breeds to SV standards and ideally want a Black and Red, then you are essentially asking for a WGSL but want a DDR mixed in there for protection purposes, from the way I'm reading it.

All GSD's have a slope. Anyone who tries to tell you differently does not know the breed. The term "straight back" is not used by legitimate breeders because they understand German Shepherd structure and anatomy. There will always be angulation in the croup, and because GSDs are stacked in a 3 point stack, there will always be a slope depending on the angulation in the back foot (how close the hock comes to touching the ground). There are some dogs that are bred to have a very severe slope, and I think that's what you are trying to avoid. But it's not easy to simply tell back structure by a 3 point stacked photo and deem a dog "not straight backed" when you're new to the breed - this is the exact same dog in different stack positions:




If you are looking for a true protection dog, then you are looking at $$$. But if you're looking for a deterrent, you don't need a DDR. Every GSD is a great deterrent in not only looks, but their big deep barks. My girl has sent people screaming just by walking by, and she's a huge sweet heart. But she also has a menacing bark, and if I take her into a store, people will literally walk the store peripherals to stay away from her.

Importing from Germany without having close contacts to the breeders there can also be a gamble. There are so many incredible breeders in Canada and the US that will have what you're looking for, I promise. Importing is rarely the answer unless you have some solid connections to take advantage of to begin with.

I appreciate the informative reply. It helped me put things in perspective. You are correct, in the beginning I was purely interested in DDRs based on what I read about structure and temperament. The more research I did online it seemed to me that DDR dogs in north America are mostly a mix with eastern European countries. Therefore I though if I am going to get mix why not do it with WG.


Based on looking at the picture in your reply, to my inexperienced eye I would definitely say that these are two different dogs. I would want to stay away from the first but the second dog in picture is absolutely what I am looking for in a ddr (very handsome). If I figure out how to edit my op I will change no slope to slight/moderate slope.


And yes unfortunately money is a factor for me that’s why I have to stay away from breeders that sell trained protection dogs. I understand what you mean about the bark. Not to be disrespectful to you in anyway and I am not saying your dog just has a loud bark but the reason I started to like ddrs in the first place was that I want a dog that doesn't just talk the talk :) If ever get into trouble with bear lets say I want backup lol.

Regarding importation from Germany, that’s exactly why I asked. Maybe someone here had a good experience with a breeder and can refer me to them. thx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hey, there! Welcome to the search! Unfortunately, there are more poor breeders out there than quality ethical ones. So sometimes the search can get a bit discouraging, but they are out there!

First and foremost, what are you looking to do with your dog and why do you want a DDR and/or West German Working line as opposed to another line? Each line has their differences, positives and negatives. While there are a few breeders out there who are working to preserve the DDR lines, there are not a lot. And many of them tend to mix their DDR lines with Czech and West German lines.

As far as breeders with some solid DDR dogs who breed to standard, Weberhaus and SentinelHarts come to mind. Though, I don't know if you will find a full DDR breeding from either. I'm actually bringing home a Weberhaus pup later this year. :)

Regarding the sloped back comment, Femfa is correct. The SV standard actually calls for some angulation in the dog and no well bred GSD will be without angulation. The appearance of a "slope" is usually amplified by the 3 point show stack that you see many GSDs in for photos, but every GSD should have some measure of angulation due to length of the back legs and croup, etc.

Happy searching!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Thanks for the reply and welcome. That’s what I figured. DDRs are mostly a mix and not just Czech sometimes (other lesser known eastern European countries)
I am not pretending to be an expert in anyway. Everything I know is from the internet and people I talked to. I can relate to the description of what a DDR dog is and I understand you might be able to find similar dogs that are WGSL or WGWL. But I must start somewhere you know. If I keep all the options open I will never get to adopt a dog. If I am going to get a dog in Canada I feel like getting a DDR/WG might be my best option. But its just a feeling and I wouldn’t know for sure until I visit some reputable breeders. I am looking for legitimate WG or DDR breeders at the moment so I can educate myself more.
I am very jealous and happy for you at the same time. Hopefully I will be in your shoes soon with a new pup. Thanks for the recommendations. I will look into them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
What is it about the DDR lines that appeals to you? Also, I'd say the SV has done more harm to the breed than good.

From my INTERNET research; I like the temperament, boxier head, strong and leaner frame. I appreciate the reasoning behind the breeds origins as appose to lets say king shepherd breeders. Regarding American or German guidelines, I am not educated enough to start a friendly argument. But I have decided if I’m going to get a WG I rather go by SV certifications. I understand peoples intention is to help me with my breed choice when they ask why. But with all do respect this post is not about me talking about my reasoning behind my decision to adopt which breed. I simply wanted to rely on this forums knowledge to find legitimate breeders and stay away from puppy factories. After I find reputable breeders both WGWL/DDR and get to spend time with their dogs, I will make final decision on which breed suites me more or even if I am personally capable of handling them. thx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
So, there's a lot going on in your replies. First and foremost, DDR is not referring to a breed of dog but to a line of German Shepherds. The DDR lines trace back to German Shepherds that were bred and worked in East Germany while the Berlin Wall was up. The wall divided Germany into East and West. DDR German Shepherds were being bred and used in East Germany and West German Working Line German Shepherds were being bred and used in West Germany. This is a simplified explanation, as it was a bit more complex than this, but this is the basics of it.

DDR, West German Working line and Czech are all just different types of working line German Shepherds. They are separate lines, not separate breeds. And many breeders today tend to mix lines (such as DDR x Czech, or DDR x West German) in order to get the best of both lines and expand their gene pools.

It sounds like what you want is a solid, level headed working line German Shepherd with a good temperment. I wouldn't worry so much about DDR vs. West German vs. Czech at this point. Just worry about finding a good breeder who breeds working lines and work to learn a lot more about the breed as you research.

As for DDR dogs "walking the walk," they can actually sometimes be a bit softer than the other lines and can take longer to mature. I'm no expert on those lines, so I'd recommend you talk to someone who really understands the Eastern lines, but this is what I have been told. Breeders like to mix in Czech and West German lines to harden the dogs up a bit.

Definitely do some more research, if you have access to an IPO club or a breed club in your area go out to visit and chat with people. And focus more on finding a good working line breeder as opposed to a DDR or West German breeder. You have to be careful about what you read online. Just go talk to those with experience and read up on the forums here.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,809 Posts
I don't think a GSD was ever meant to be able to take on a bear.

Honestly I think you'd be better off with a livestock guarding breed or an Akita if you really want a dog that be a real deterrent to large predators
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,788 Posts
I am trying to read as many articles as I can right now. I need to start visiting breeders to actually see the lines in person as appose to just pictures.

I mainly go camping alone in the bush and I want some help/protection from predators. Secondly house protection. At this time the reason I am interested in adopting is not showing/sports but I really don't know how involved I might become with dog sports in the future. thx
Ok. I will let others address most other things you mentioned but as far as what you are looking for in a dog, when you find a breeder be very clear that you are looking for an active companion dog. In Ontario there are a few breeders, I know none of them personally. Check out German Shepherd Breeders on FB. It's a group made up mostly of breeders and they are usually cool about recommendations.
DDR is/was a line within the breed, not a separate breed. I will give you a rough breakdown, that I am sure someone will correct. The breed is split into Show line or SL and Working line or WL. Show line generally refers to the West German SL. There is also the American show line which is effectively yet another split.
Working line is comprised of the DDR, Czech and West German WL. In most cases WL breeders use a combo of the lines although there are still some "pure" lines being preserved. For the most part breeders pick sides so to speak and they are either WL breeders or SL breeders. And fair warning, most breeders playing the "pure DDR" card are all about marketing and could care less about the dogs. It has sadly become something of a gimmick, as I learned the hard way when trying to find a "replacement" for my big guy.
However, for kennel club purposes they are all German Shepherd Dogs.

You do understand that these dogs will consume your life right? :grin2: We constantly have folks on here bemoaning the fact that they can no longer sleep in or have hour long showers. Kiss Sunday morning layabouts good bye and get a warm jacket and good boots! These dogs are 365 and they show no mercy. Good luck in your search.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
32,587 Posts
Based on looking at the picture in your reply, to my inexperienced eye I would definitely say that these are two different dogs. I would want to stay away from the first but the second dog in picture is absolutely what I am looking for in a ddr (very handsome). If I figure out how to edit my op I will change no slope to slight/moderate slope.
These are photos of the same dog in different lighting conditions and standing differently. What femfa was saying was that in a stacked position, as in the first photo, there is a slope to the topline. But that same dog standing normally does not have a slope, as in the second photo. It's a function of the way the dog is posed. Legitimate breeders aren't going to be talking about sloped backs any more than they are about straight backs. Angulation, yes, but not slopes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
These are photos of the same dog in different lighting conditions and standing differently. What femfa was saying was that in a stacked position, as in the first photo, there is a slope to the topline. But that same dog standing normally does not have a slope, as in the second photo. It's a function of the way the dog is posed. Legitimate breeders aren't going to be talking about sloped backs any more than they are about straight backs. Angulation, yes, but not slopes.

I understood what femfa was saying . I was trying to be funny. Comedy aint my thing :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I really do appreciate everyone's input. I guess I was so overwhelmed with the amount of gsd breeders, I just wanted someone to tell me who to choose.


Lines vs breeds got it.
slope vs angulation understood.


Regarding the bear comment that was me trying to imagine the scariest situation that can happen to me. I don't expect ANY breed of dog to deter a bear. But a brave dog will give you time to analyse and respond to any threat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,788 Posts
Totally understand. Its a ton of info to go through. Here is a start von tighe haus. Had a chat a while back. Ottawa area.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,995 Posts
I don't like the term DDR lines, because there are so few true DDR lines and they really aren't that similar to the original good ones. They do not have a leaner frame and tend to have stronger bone and muscle mass. As for temperament, each dog is an individual and temperament will be largely determined by the parents more so than a dog being from DDR lines. IMO, King Shepherds are not really GSDs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
I don't like the term DDR lines, because there are so few true DDR lines and they really aren't that similar to the original good ones. They do not have a leaner frame and tend to have stronger bone and muscle mass. As for temperament, each dog is an individual and temperament will be largely determined by the parents more so than a dog being from DDR lines. IMO, King Shepherds are not really GSDs.
King Shepherds absolutely are not GSDs. They are a mix of GSD, Malamute and I think something else...they are glorified mutts.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Femfa and Jax08

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,995 Posts
You might look at von Banach or some Czech breeders whose lines go back to some DDR dogs. It is very hard to find good so called DDR stock. Focusing more on what a breeder's breeding program is trying to produce will likely help you get the type of dog you want rather than pigeon holing the dog as West German, Belgian, Czech, Slovakian, DDR, etc. To do that, you need to educate yourself about the different traits GSDs can possess and then look for breedings likely to produce those traits. Weberhaus has a DDR stud. Alt-Ostland is another kennel. I am not vouching for their dogs, as I don't know them, but they do have modern DDR lines. Blackthorn GSDs have some DDR breeding stock too. Jinopo's lines go back to old DDR lines and old Czech lines. Schraderhaus is another DDR breeder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
First off, welcome to the forums and the world of GSDs! It can be very overwhelming trying to take in as much info as you can. I’m hoping maybe I can help at least a little!

I am also a hiker and outdoor enthusiast. Having a dog (in my case dogs) along makes it so much more fun, and does add a level of security. That being said, while they most likely would be a deterrent, I would never count on a dog or even a pack of dogs to take down a bear. That is why I don’t go tromping around in the woods without my .40. Even though where I live there are just the shy black bears, they are numerous in these mountains and I just feel better taking the pistol along. If safety is a main concern, I’d put my faith in a firearm and have the dog for enjoyment of their company.

And with that being said, if you are not actively seeking a IPO or true protection dog you can certainly open up your options as far as other lines of GSD. In fact you would probably be happier, as working line dogs have some serious energy output. I have a six month old whose sire is a WGSL and dam a Czech/DDR, he is my first GSD and I couldn’t be happier with him. I’m sorry if I missed it, is this your first dog or just first GSD?
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top