[gabmnqmz]

I am currently looking for a working line breeder that produces high drive dogs. The dog will be used primarily for personal protection and psa, as well as detection work. This dog will live in a family environment, but will be WORKED. I am not looking for a dog to just be the family pet/companion. The problem I have found during my search is seeing dogs that don't have the drive/athleticism I am looking for. Trying to find a breeder that produces TRUE working GSDs is proving to be challenging, so I was hoping I could get some recommendations on here!

I might add that I know what comes along with owning and training a high drive dog, as I was raised with a Dutch shepherd and exposed to many high drive/intense dogs

Thanks!!

 

[Jax08]

Maybe you should define your idea of drive and athleticism. I know several "true" working GSDs so perhaps your definition is different than mine.

 

[gabmnqmz]

Hi Jax08,
My idea of high drive is a dog with unshakable nerves and superb defense drives (has a will to stand and fight against any threat), outstanding toy drive and will go on the "hunt" in any environment without waivering, paired with a willingness to please and is always ready to work. As far as athleticism, I'm looking for a robust dog that is muscular but not overly so, and is sturdy, powerful, energetic, and nimble.

I suppose what I DON'T want is a gsd that I have seen more and more breeders producing; too heavy and thick with little consideration for the able bodiedness of the dog. I don't expect the same speed and agility that is seen in malinois or dutchies, which considering what I was raised around, I suppose that is the type of athleticism I am used to seeing.

I am trying to broaden my horizons and widen my search with working lines and breeders, so any helpful info is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Jax08]

I think you are looking for something very specific that will highly depend on the individual breeding more than the breeder itself. I also think that you are looking for a very hard, independent, dog, yet a biddable one, and I'm not sure those two traits are easy to get in the same dog. for instance, the Czech dogs will bring the defense but not so much biddability. German Shepherds are not built like Mal's and Dutchie's. They are going to be heavier and thicker and I suspect you maybe, unintentionally, be comparing the two.

Where are you located at? If you were exposed to many high drive/defense dogs, can't you go thru those resources? I would suggestion you go to clubs and watch the dogs until you find what you are looking for. Also go to the Facebook pages for IPO and working dogs.
I'm not sure most people on the board have the experience to recommend the breeders you are looking for.

 

[Nscullin]

Hi Jax08,
My idea of high drive is a dog with unshakable nerves and superb defense drives (has a will to stand and fight against any threat), outstanding toy drive and will go on the "hunt" in any environment without waivering, paired with a willingness to please and is always ready to work. As far as athleticism, I'm looking for a robust dog that is muscular but not overly so, and is sturdy, powerful, energetic, and nimble.

I suppose what I DON'T want is a gsd that I have seen more and more breeders producing; too heavy and thick with little consideration for the able bodiedness of the dog. I don't expect the same speed and agility that is seen in malinois or dutchies, which considering what I was raised around, I suppose that is the type of athleticism I am used to seeing.

I am trying to broaden my horizons and widen my search with working lines and breeders, so any helpful info is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

So do you want a dog with a high defense drive or high prey drive bc you say both. Dogs usually have a dominant drive. It’s rare to find a completely balanced drive profile. And I don’t think you’d be able to tell that as a puppy


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[Jax08]

So do you want a dog with a high defense drive or high prey drive bc you say both. Dogs usually have a dominant drive. It’s rare to find a completely balanced drive profile. And I don’t think you’d be able to tell that as a puppy

I don't agree with all of this. My girl has very high aggression and very high prey. She can transition between the two (which IS the part that is usually an issue when you have both)

You can have both and there are indications as a puppy, but all puppies are crap shoots even when you stack the deck in your favor.

 

[onyx'girl]

Get with Nate at Sportwaffen K9 – Dedicated to the Working Line German Shepherd Dog! He now and then has older pups that may fit your criteria. An 8 week old puppy won't be proven to do all that you want. I personally would expect to pay $$$ to get a dog that checks all your boxes. Yet, some puppies fill those needs with ease, it is just the luck of the draw.

 

[Nscullin]

I don't agree with all of this. My girl has very high aggression and very high prey. She can transition between the two (which IS the part that is usually an issue when you have both)

You can have both and there are indications as a puppy, but all puppies are crap shoots even when you stack the deck in your favor.

I’m not saying that you can’t have both. I’m saying that one is usually more dominant than the other. You don’t wash a dog that has little prey drive and high defense. I’ve seen pups that by 5 months you can tell that defense is the dominant drive. They fire at almost anything. The problem is they tend to have weaker nerves. Oh, and just to give credit where credits due, you also have tons of experience and were able to come up with the rare puppy of balanced drive...just saying. You said “my girl has...” didn’t say all my dogs have had...


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[Jax08]

IMO, That's not proper aggression. That's poor nerves and reactivity. Yes, people will wash a dog with low prey and high defense. They are hard to train. The bites in the routine are in prey. Bites in aggression are typically not calm. Bites in prey are harder and calmer. But I'm sure you know that already.

I do not have tons of experience and I don't feel my girl is rare.. She is what she is. I would tell you about my dogs but they aren't really the topic. I was just using her as an example.

 

[Nscullin]

IMO, That's not proper aggression. That's poor nerves and reactivity. Yes, people will wash a dog with low prey and high defense. They are hard to train. The bites in the routine are in prey. Bites in aggression are typically not calm. Bites in prey are harder and calmer. But I'm sure you know that already.

I do not have tons of experience and I don't feel my girl is rare.. She is what she is. I would tell you about my dogs but they aren't really the topic. I was just using her as an example.

I’m actually very interested to hear and learn. Pm me. Also, I don’t think that’s fair to the dog. I believe we’re referring to different things bc I’m not really thinking of sport dogs in this. Although not what I like with a dog, some people seems to love a dog with a low defense threshold and high avoidance threshold. To me, that is aggression. Proper or not, that’s another topic.


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[Nscullin]

I’m actually very interested to hear and learn. Pm me. Also, I don’t think that’s fair to the dog. I believe we’re referring to different things bc I’m not really thinking of sport dogs in this. Although not what I like with a dog, some people seems to love a dog with a low defense threshold and high avoidance threshold. To me, that is aggression. Proper or not, that’s another topic.


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And isn’t that pretty much your old school ddr/Czech lines?


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[onyx'girl]

I agree with Jax… defensive dogs can be higher threshold, takes more to tap into their drive state so "hard to train".
Waiting them out to mature some isn't what many trainers want to deal with...if there isn't high prey, they have to work harder or wait out the dog. I have had dogs with balanced drives because we(helper/TD/Me) had to wait, had to teach the dog transition phase, and the helper knew how to tap into the less 'dominate' drive state. Over the top prey is just as difficult to balance. I'd rather have a dog with stronger defense(with good nerve) and higher threshold, my preference, even though they may be more of a challenge to work for some.

 

[Nscullin]

I agree with Jax… defensive dogs can be higher threshold, takes more to tap into their drive state so "hard to train".
Waiting them out to mature some isn't what many trainers want to deal with...if there isn't high prey, they have to work harder or wait out the dog. I have had dogs with balanced drives because we(helper/TD/Me) had to wait, had to teach the dog transition phase, and the helper knew how to tap into the less 'dominate' drive state. Over the top prey is just as difficult to balance. I'd rather have a dog with stronger defense(with good nerve) and higher threshold, my preference, even though they may be more of a challenge to work for some.

Idk. I guesss my take on it is if you have a “balanced” dog you don’t have to work hard to tap into either. That’s balanced to me. You don’t have to work any harder to get the dog I. Defense than prey. If you do, doesn’t seem like much of a balance to me. If I’m wrong school me bc I’m lacking somewhere.


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[Fodder]

i saw one mention of moving the conversation to PM’s.... although the discussion may still be useful and of interest to the OP, for now let’s try to stay on topic.

while the type of dog that the OP is looking for couldn’t be farther from my knowledge and expertise - anyone know of or have thoughts on any Z Pohranicni Straze lines here in the states?

 

[Nscullin]

i saw one mention of moving the conversation to PM’s.... although the discussion may still be useful and of interest to the OP, for now let’s try to stay on topic.

while the type of dog that the OP is looking for couldn’t be farther from my knowledge and expertise - anyone know of or have thoughts on any Z Pohranicni Straze lines here in the states?

Sorry, I’m confused a little, should we go ahead and move to pms or no?


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[Fodder]

Sorry, I’m confused a little, should we go ahead and move to pms or no?


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yes, unless its directly related to the OP’s breeder search, or a recommendation.

 

[Nscullin]

yes, unless its directly related to the OP’s breeder search, or a recommendation.

Ok. No prob.


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[Jax08]

okey dokey then.

@gabmnqmz

- I would ask on the facebook pages. You will have a better chance of finding what you are looking for.

 

[MineAreWorkingline]

i saw one mention of moving the conversation to PM’s.... although the discussion may still be useful and of interest to the OP, for now let’s try to stay on topic.

while the type of dog that the OP is looking for couldn’t be farther from my knowledge and expertise - anyone know of or have thoughts on any Z Pohranicni Straze lines here in the states?

zPS lines are gone. The closest you are going to get in the US is most likely z Jirkova Dvora and kennels that work with them. There shouldn't be a problem finding them. I know of a breeder whose bitches were imported from them. I have two males from zPS lines, both are powerhouses in the aggression department, not for the fainthearted.

 

[onyx'girl]

I am so not a fan of this new format...what happened to actually discussions here? Taking conversations to PM is detrimental for those trying to learn? Just because someone asks for breeder recommendations, a bunny trail on their criteria should not be hidden away in a PM, IMO, it is on topic if there is some education to be retained. Drive state and the dogs genetics play into the actual topic.