[NewGSDmomma]

We're in the process of purchasing a Gsd puppy for the first time.
Found the perfect breeder, truly could not be more highly recommended.

Litter: 3 females, 5 males.

Problem: 2 deceased male puppies, with a 3rd male that could either way. And, we're purchasing a male. All the females are fat, feisty and perfect.

1st pup had megaesophogus complications, died around 5 weeks.
2nd pup had a heart murmur, found in seizure. Died yesterday @ 7 weeks.
3rd pup has Persistant Right Aortic Arch (PRAA). Breeder is bringing him in for surgery next week, seems to be thriving & doing well for now.

Questions:
* Are there any tests we should have done prior to taking our pup home to ensure he doesn't have an undiscovered genetic issue?

* Anyone have experience owning a Gsd with PRAA? Outcome? Long term issues? Developmental delays? Physical restrictions?

* Any other advice/ things to look for when purchasing a male out of this litter?


Again, this isn't a bad breeder deal. She's responsible, honest, & HIGHLY respected within the gsd community. This is the first breeding for both mom/dad. Dad is a champion. Dogs from this litter will receive limited AKC papers because of the genetic Problems. Due to the issues, she's requiring all pups spayed/neutered & the parents will also be fixed. I'd use/recommend her in the future without hesitation.

Experienced thoughts/advice?

 

[Mrs.P]

Yikes! If you're still getting a pup I would get pet insurance and make sure congenital aliments are covered in your plan but hopefully you will never need it! Good luck

 

[Dainerra]

honestly, I would ask her to transfer my deposit to another litter.

 

[Rbeckett]

We're in the process of purchasing a Gsd puppy for the first time.
Found the perfect breeder, truly could not be more highly recommended.


Again, this isn't a bad breeder deal. She's responsible, honest, & HIGHLY respected within the gsd community. This is the first breeding for both mom/dad. Dad is a champion. Dogs from this litter will receive limited AKC papers because of the genetic Problems. Due to the issues, she's requiring all pups spayed/neutered & the parents will also be fixed. I'd use/recommend her in the future without hesitation.

Experienced thoughts/advice?

All depends on what your intentions are for the dog. As a show dog I would pass since it already has a high mortality rate in the litter, but if the pup is a family, loyal pet type of dog then I would get her or him to a vet for a thorough check up with the understanding if they find any issues the dog is returnable for another pup from a different litter. If no congenital issues are found then I would take her home and wait till her first heat or later to get her spayed. If it is a male I would try to wait till the dog was full grown around the age of two before I got him neutered. Just my thoughts for a possibly genetically flawed animal that should not be in the show ring but working or being a big old dumb pet. Hope this helps.

Wheelchair Bob

 

[NancyJ]

I am going to guess that insurance coverage is not going to be likely for a pup that already had surgery for a congenital deformity............It is scary enough going home with a healthy pup from a robust litter....I don't know enough about it to know if other issues can be linked to this problem.

 

[JakodaCD OA]

I can't answer how the others will turn out, obviously no one can.

Honestly, I would be very wary of taking a pup from this litter..One puppy loss I wouldn't worry about, but 3,,that's to high of a risk for me..But hey, the rest could be perfectly healthy..

 

[MaggieRoseLee]

ACK!!!

Any breeder can have bad luck with a litter, but I'd be very leary of getting a pup from that litter.

There going to be a big reduction in price? That will help with the future vet bills if you go in with your eyes wide open and fingers crossed.

 

[Momto2GSDs]

I agree with Jocoyn, Jacoda and Dainerra:
Unless you have A LOT of money, time, and can take a possible heartbreak, wait and choose another litter! This one has RED FLAGS written all over it!

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

I think it's great that the breeder is speutering all involved.

Persistent Right Aortic Arch (PRAA) in Dogs

I am guessing I would join the Mega-E group and see if any of them have any input. megaesophagus : Megaesophagus I would also be talking to my vet.

PRAA has good information - I know of a pup a few years ago who had this done and looks/acts/feels great. So that was a successful outcome.

 

[Shade]

Personally I wouldn't take a puppy from the litter, bad genetics is bad genetics. I'm glad the breeder is taking responsibilty but I still wouldn't want to take a puppy unless I had a huge savings which could be put towards future health care. Health insurance can be very helpful but there are limitations and I'd hate for them to find loopholes

I would either ask for the deposit to go to another litter or see if it can be refunded and look elsewhere if the timing is wrong with the current breeder

 

[Momto2GSDs]

This person is experienced with Mega-E: http://www.piekasplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/A-Guide-To-Mega-Esophagus.pdf

Example of care that needs to be given to a dog with Mega-E:

“The first key to management is the type of food given to the dog. The goal is small, frequent meals. Young dogs or small dogs may need 4-6 meals per day.”

“At a minimum, dogs should be fed in a position that is as close to vertical as possible, then kept in that position for 15-45 minutes after feeding”

“As discussed below, aspiration of food is a constant risk. Likewise, most veterinary professionals agree that mega-E dogs are immune-compromised”

[FONT=&quot]“Primary mega-E cannot be cured via surgery or medicine. It can often be managed in a way that greatly decreases the amount of regurgitation that occurs. Management of mega-E can be taken to what some people would consider as extreme. Some people even go so far as to install a PEG tube (a feeding tube)to minimize the chance for regurgitation. My personal goal is to control the regurgitation as best I can, while still providing my dog excellent quality of life and the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]opportunity to “be a dog.”[/FONT]

 

[Mrs.P]

I am going to guess that insurance coverage is not going to be likely for a pup that already had surgery for a congenital deformity............It is scary enough going home with a healthy pup from a robust litter....I don't know enough about it to know if other issues can be linked to this problem.

Two additional alive males she does not mention any previous surgery on...?

 

[NewGSDmomma]

No, the other 2 males appear to be fine. Just wondering if there are genetic tests that can be preformed to make sure they continue to be fine.

 

[Heidigsd]

I don't know of any tests that can be performed now but it seems unlikely, best person to answer that would be your vet

If it was me I would pass on getting a puppy from this litter. I am on my second GSD with health issues and had enough to last me a lifetime. Of course on the other hand I feel bad for the puppies

If you are still considering taking a puppy and yours hasn't been diagnosed with any issues I would sign up for health insurance NOW!!! We have PetPlan which I can really recommend but there are others of course. With PetPlan there is a two week waiting period and if the puppy gets diagnosed with any health issues during those two weeks they will be considered pre-existing.

Depending on the issues the puppy has it can become expensive real quick, so you have to ask yourself if you have the funds to take care of a dog maybe the rest of his life. Besides the money issue it can also be heartbreaking at times. I wish you good luck and hope it works out for you.

Here is a post on health insurance where I added up how much PetPlan has reimbursed us so far, it may help you decide. http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/health-issues/304010-insurance-recommendations-3.html#post3890890

Michaela

 

[Anubis_Star]

All these conditions can be tested for. I would want full xrays, mega-e along with numerous congenital heart conditions can be seen. I would also want a consult with a cardiologist and an echocardiogram.

If those all come up normal than you've ruled out the conditions that have caused the 3 ailments so far.

Its VERY concerning though - when a dog has 1 genetic ailment it's likely there are more. Now you have 3 sick dogs with potentially 3 different ailments

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[carmspack]

I think you would be waiting for something to go wrong- epilepsy, hip dysplasia , DM (well you can test for that now) auto-immune .

 

[NewGSDmomma]

Its VERY concerning though - when a dog has 1 genetic ailment it's likely there are more. Now you have 3 sick dogs with potentially 3 different ailments

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Exactly! And that's what concerns me.
Carmen pm'd earlier & as I told (him/her ), if it were a matter of just commonsense, I know the right answer. Pass!

It would just be great to hear from others that have had litters with similar issues and if the other dogs did well down the road or were there a host of other anomalies that later presented.

Something is clearly affecting the male chromosome in this litter. The females are prefect. And no, I can't take a female. I have a bossy 4yo female Pomeranian.

Anubis & Carmen, thank you for the info!

 

[BowWowMeow]

I fostered a sable pup who had the surgery for PRAA. His breeder turned him in to be euthanized and the vet did the surgery and turned him over to the rescue I worked with. He did have mild Mega-E but no other health problems. He didn't need a Bailey chair, just needed to eat slurry-style food or ground raw.

It is very common for pups with PRAA to develop Mega-E but the severity of the Mega-E varies.

 

[Freestep]

Just curious--what bloodlines are these dogs? American, German show/working? If your breeder is responsible, I assume there were no clear warning signs in the pedigree. Just wondering where the genetic abnormalities may have come from, not trying to "out" your breeder.

 

[NewGSDmomma]

I fostered a sable pup who had the surgery for PRAA. His breeder turned him in to be euthanized and the vet did the surgery and turned him over to the rescue I worked with. He did have mild Mega-E but no other health problems. He didn't need a Bailey chair, just needed to eat slurry-style food or ground raw.

It is very common for pups with PRAA to develop Mega-E but the severity of the Mega-E varies.

Thank you for your response! Not likely we will go with the guy with PRAA but it's possible. We fell in love with him and 1 surviving brother during our visits. Do you know if the foster needed the soft diet permanently? Not that it would be a decision maker/breaker. More concerned about the potential of Mega-E being fatal like with his brother.

I know there's no guarantee no matter what the decision is. It's just nice to receive feedback from others who have experienced it.

As far as pedigree/line. Father is a champion American show. Mom is also American show. Breeder had both checked by a top local vet prior to breeding, no indications of potential problems. No problems presented until the first vet check. 1 male was diagnosed with a mild heart murmur. He was going to have it re-checked at 8 weeks. He was the one that died Saturday. She said she had them out playing, went into feed them an hour later and found him in seizure. Rushed him to the vet, he died there. She's having an autopsy done on him. Prior to his demise she noticed his head larger and rounder than the others. I saw him a few days before he died and he seemed normal to me but, I'm completely new to all of this!

The other checked fine at the vet on the first check, then had something she noticed was wrong with his throat, brought him in & was diagnosed with severe mega-e & died. The 3rd who needs surgery didn't appear to have anything wrong at all until he started weaning. She said he was the "first out of the box" and all appeared normal until he started vomiting. He's still thriving and will have surgery next week.