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Discussion Starter #1
I think I might have posted something similar to this a couple of weeks ago but this is still continuing.

About 4 weeks ago my Mom went into the hospital for a couple of days; which meant I had to stay with her and Xena had to stay home. Her stools weren't as firm during this time. I had also opened a new bag of dog food; whose best by date was Dec. 2018 when the previous bag was May 2019. Stools started getting back to normal but wasn't always.

Then last weekend I myself was put in the hospital which chest pains--probably bad bad gas- and Xena's poop was back to liquidish and she ripped the head off her rubber chicken toy. It was also during this time I opened a new box of treats--Grain Free Blue Dog Bakery Peanut Butter and Molasses treats. After I get home poops are getting back solid.

This weekend mom in hospital again and the liquidish poops are back. Last night I gave her a treat and this morning and this evening the poops are squishy again.

I have increased her food slightly but not enough to make her sick. I'm laying off that kind of treats but anyone have any suggestions or ideas? I haven't had any issues with her other than some bouts of gas and I have heard her burp after eating.

She's been on this brand food since she was probalby 3-4 months old. IT's Diamond Naturals Large Breed GF Lamb.
 

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I've been having the same problems with Xena off and on, but I seem to be seeing more liquid now. I wondered if it might have something to do with the heat (I'm in Florida) and did some research on it. What I read said that heat and high humidity can cause loose stools, as can exercise. I don't know where you live or how hot it gets, but that could have something to do with it. I also read something about how a lot of dogs don't eat as much when it's hot because it takes energy to digest food and they want to conserve as much energy as they can. I hope I'm paraphrasing that all correctly!
 

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Some dogs when out of their normal day to day routine---different housing--different people-- missing a familiar face--"nerves" can cause loose :poop:.....others seem to have nerves that aren't affected by changes in routine at all....sounds like your dog is.
As far as food...yes.. I'd try another kibble....but there's no "magic bullet" kibble out there...what works for some dogs has an opposite affect on others--ingredients are very important for your dog overall.....but the things i look at are.. A) does my dog like and eat the food....B) Coat is shiny,no itching-scratching etc.....C) plenty of energy....and D) good firm :poop:---that's the thermometer that I use....I read my dog so to speak lol....you'll likely try a few brands and spend some time.. before finding one that works well all around
 

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These are a few items in dog food AND treats that dogs are sensitive to: Chicken Items (Meat, Meal, Fat, Eggs, Cartilage) Grains of all kinds (including oatmeal and oatmeal shampoo!), even some of the "Non-Gluten" grains, Lentils/Pea items, Potatoes, Flax seed or oil, certain Fish and Yeast supplements. So read the ingredient list VERY carefully.


The following are your possible sensitivities with the treats and dog food.


BLUE DOG BAKERY PEANUT BUTTER & MOLASSAS TREATS:
Ingredients: Pea Flour, Chickpea Flour, Ground Flaxseed, Tapioca Starch, Molasses (Cane), Palm Oil, Whey, Natural Caramel Color, Salt, Nonfat Milk, Egg Powder, Baking Soda, Brewer's Yeast, Natural Peanut Butter Flavor.????? Where's the Peanut Butter????????



DIAMOND NATURALS LBP LAMB & RICE:
Ingredients: Lamb, Lamb Meal, Ground White Rice, Peas, Pea Flour, Cracked Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Egg Product, Dried Yeast, Tomato Pomace, Potato Protein, Flaxseed,Natural Flavor, Salmon Oil (Source Of Dha), Salt, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, L-Carnitine, Kale, Chia Seed, Pumpkin, Blueberries, Oranges, Quinoa, Dried Kelp, Coconut, Spinach, Carrots, Papaya, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Animalis Fermentation Product, Vitamin E Supplement, Beta Carotene, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid.


I would suggest a single protein LIMITED kibble and treat (NOTHING else) for about 8 weeks.

ALSO..... A High Quality Digestive Enzyme (helps to assimilate food) & a ProBiotic (keeps the "good" bacteria in the gut). Since about 75% of the immune system lies in the gut (immune system helps fight allergens and MANY other things) it is very important to keep it healthy.

Below are Human Ingredient Products made for dogs:
Sunday Sundae https://feedsentials.com/sundaysundae (click on the email to order)
Gut Sense http://dr-dobias-natural-healing-usa...ducts/gutsense
Digest All Plus: https://www.thewholisticpet.com/dog/supplements/digestion/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html
Animal Essentials: Plant Enzyme w/ Probiotics 3.5 oz 100 gm - Animal Essentials



KIBBLE & TREATS:
Acana Limited “Singles”: Pork & Butternut Squash: http://acana.com/our-foods/singles/pork-butternut-squash/
Ingredients: Deboned pork*, pork meal, green lentils, red lentils, pork liver*, butternut squash*, pork fat, green peas, yellow peas, canola oil, algae, garbanzo beans, pumpkin*, carrots*, pork kidney*, freeze-dried pork liver, kelp, chicory root, ginger root, peppermint leaf, lemon balm, mixed tocopherols (preservative), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product. They also have a limited lamb.
Pork & Squash Limited treats: https://acana.com/our-foods/dog-foods/singles-treats/pork-squash/?lang=usa
Store locator: Store Locator | Acana

Can I use Acana Singles for a puppy?:
ACANA Pork Singles (info from site)
"Use this chart as an initial guide and adjust amounts accordingly:
Feed twice daily and always provide fresh clean water.
PUPPIES:
-1 1/2 to 2 Months old feed twice adult amount.
-3 to 6 Months old feed 1 1/2 times the adult amount
-6 to 11 Months old feed 1 1/4th times the adult amount"



*Another Limited Product: Instinct Limited: https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dog...d-ingredient-diet-grain-free-recipe-real-duck


Always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old, to eventually transitioning out the old food.
If stool gets loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance".


Moms :)





 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well I think eggs are the issue. Back in Feb I guess I gave her 1 raw egg with her food and she had the run really bad. So I guess that's the issue. Last night her poops were better. Ordering food online is not really an option and I only have Walmart and Tractor Supply available and price is also an issue. Who know dog food was so confusing.
 

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I get the whole budget thing, I REALLY do. Since you use Tractor Supply I would suggest their own line of dog food, 4Health, it's made by Diamond. They have a Lamb and Rice, with brown rice as well as white. The probiotic and enzyme is a very good idea. I have used Nature Valley enzyme and probiotic supplements from Walmart, around 7 bucks. My dog needs the big guns as these do not suffice for a dog with EPI. A tablespoon of pumpkin puree is excellent fiber for firming up stools, as well.

The FDA has just released a statement concerning legumes and potatoes in dog food. They can cause heart problems. Ugh, another monkey wrench in the gears for me. My boy has 'special' problems.

I would not give treats, just use the kibble for training until things are sorted out. I would also never give a store bought egg, especially raw. If you have access to free range, organic eggs from a local farmer, I guess you could go for it, but I don't see any reason to since dog food is complete in nutrition.

If you continue to have a problem with actual liquid stools, that are foul smelling, off color, along with gas and gurgling you may want to get a sample run at the vet. It may take more than one sample if you are dealing with a protozoa, like giardia. If there is mucous or blood, I would run a couple now.

This past year has rendered me to connoisseur of all things poop. There is not a bm that gets by me without inspection. I would rather be learning guitar....
 

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The FDA has just released a statement concerning legumes and potatoes in dog food. They can cause heart problems.

Just FYI

Quote from FDA: "Diets in cases reported to the FDA frequently list potatoes or multiple legumes such as peas, lentils, other “pulses” (seeds of legumes), and their protein, starch and fiber derivatives early in the ingredient list, indicating that they are main ingredients. Early reports from the veterinary cardiology community indicate that the dogs consistently ate these foods as their primary source of nutrition for time periods ranging from months to years. High levels of legumes or potatoes appear to be more common in diets labeled as “grain-free,” but it is not yet known how these ingredients are linked to cases of DCM (Dilated Cardiomyopathy).
Changes in diet, especially for dogs with DCM, should be made in consultation with a licensed veterinarian."

*They know there is a connection with these ingredients but more research needs to be done before this can be concluded as an actual fact.




Well I think eggs are the issue. Back in Feb I guess I gave her 1 raw egg with her food and she had the run really bad. So I guess that's the issue. Last night her poops were better. Ordering food online is not really an option and I only have Walmart and Tractor Supply available and price is also an issue. Who know dog food was so confusing.

Petsmart and Petsco carry the Instinct Limited I mentioned. Over budget?..... yes..... but you have to feed your dog something he is not sensitive to if the below does not work.


There is only ONE 4Health product from Tractor Supply that does not have eggs in it, and I believe all of them have some form of chicken in them.

The "Grain Free Duck & Potato" might be your answer.
Ingredients:
Duck, Duck Meal, Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Garbanzo Beans, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Fish Meal, Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Flaxseed, Salmon Oil (Source Of Dha), Salt, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Tomatoes, Blueberries, Raspberries, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Animalis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Reuteri Fermentation Product, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid.



In TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) DUCK is a "cooling" food to the body, so hopefully this will help calm his gut down. BTW, LAMB is a "hot" food so I would not give this dog Lamb.


Good luck
Moms :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Update:

This morning and this evening's poops were better. I'm hoping this was all stress. But once I get closer to the end of her current I'll be switching food. But shouldn't she be eating large breed food and not just regular? I swear this is so confusing. What I don't understand is she has ate this food since she was 7 months old.
 

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But once I get closer to the end of her current I'll be switching food.

But shouldn't she be eating large breed food and not just regular?

I swear this is so confusing. What I don't understand is she has ate this food since she was 7 months old.

If you believe the dog is having a problem with the food.....why would you wait till the END of the bag? Use some of this bag for transition and you can donate the rest to a friend or shelter.


Some breeders and owners never feed "Puppy" food or "Large Breed" food.


Diamond uses less than quality ingredients and they use DIFFERENT vendors/suppliers who have different sources. So your dog is most likely not getting the EXACT same ingredients in each bag.
-Diamond had a HUGE recall of the foods they make back in 2012.


Moms :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
At times her stools seem to be firming up then the next one is more liquid and payday is tomorrow. I had thought it was stress and trying to give her time to understand everything is okay now.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Update:

Friday I purchased a small bag of the 4health food suggested and some probodtics from walmart. Xena's stools seemed to be half and half until this morning pure liquid. Grr. So this morning I started switching her food. She is still playing and acting like herself. If this doesn't work I guess we're off to the vet for some testing.
 

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Our 9 month old Bella suffered for about 4 months on and off with loose stools until we realized she was highly grain intolerant. The vet prescribed these “Endosorb” clay tablets while we were trying to figure out what was wrong with her and ran every test possible. Long story short she has to be totally grain free and she is now transitionin to a mostly raw diet but we keep these Endosorb clay tablets on hand and from time to time she still gets these when she has the occasional issue with loose poop which is normally after having a bully stick and or way too much excitement at doggie daycare. The vet charges like $0.50 a tablet for these and at one point Bella was pretty much eating them like candy to keep her stools formed up so we found an online website where we buy them at wholesale prices so I paid $71.00 for the last 500 count bottle and that came out to like $.15 each a big savings. Sounds like your pups loose stools comes from stress but it’s good to have the vet do a blood panel and get the stool tested as well to rule out anything else. Bella had to have a GI blood panel done and they sent to to the University of Texas A&M University vet school for Gastrointestinal screening to make sure she didn’t have Exocrine Pancreatic Disease. She did not have that but did have low B12 levels so the vet did a serious of 6 B12 shots and that helped her as well along with a “fecal microbial transfer” in the form of capsules given twice a day for 25 days from a company called “ Animal Biome” the FMT was to put good bacteria in to her gut from the stools of healthy dogs that had good balances of bacteria in their stools.
 

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She did not have that but did have low B12 levels so the vet did a serious of 6 B12 shots and that helped her as well along with a “fecal microbial transfer” in the form of capsules given twice a day for 25 days from a company called “ Animal Biome” the FMT was to put good bacteria in to her gut from the stools of healthy dogs that had good balances of bacteria in their stools.

I'm so excited to hear of someone using the Animal Biome Capsules with success!


I've suggested it to several people this past year who did not want to do the "fresh" Fecal Matter from the vet! LOL


Here is the site for anyone interested: https://www.animalbiome.com/



Moms :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ok big update here. I tried the new food and it’s hit and miss with her good stool then cow patties. I called the vet yesterday and they asked for a fecal sample. Got one this morning and took it in and they called me back. Looks like we got a case of hook worms.

I am still going to change her food and pick up the medicine after work.
 

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Dragon, what your experience has shown is something that's very valuable as a lesson for future readers who find this thread: start with your vet to diagnose diarrhea! IMHO, a fecal test should be the first step before food changes and supplements, as intestinal worms are so common.

Good evidence-based vets diagnose illnesses by starting with "most likely" and heading out toward "least likely" causes. When they hear hoofbeats, they look for horses first, not zebras. So that's why they want to rule out intestinal parasites before complicated, expensive food changes based on food allergies -- a lot of times, a few days of cheap dewormer will take care of everything!

A lot of dogs do very well on Diamond Naturals and 4Health (which is made by Diamond for Tractor Supply). Costco's Kirkland Chicken & Rice is also made by them and is almost identical to Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice. These are all pretty much interchangeable foods IMHO. This family of foods are all relatively inexpensive mid-grade options costing around $30 for 40# -- for people on a budget, it's good bang for the buck. You can buy much better food, but you'll spend more to do it -- the next step up would be Victor (about $15 more per bag, for their entry level lines).

We feed a lot of the Costco/Kirkland Chicken & Rice version of Diamond to dogs in our rescue because of the value it represents, and it tends to produce good, solid poop once the worms are dealt with, and it improves coats compared to cheaper food -- as long as there's no food allergy (which is honestly fairly rare--it's a possibility, but it's not a lot of dogs). Many of our adopters continue feeding some version of it, as they like the price point and how it feeds out.

Diamond hasn't had a major recall in years, so they seem to have fixed whatever was causing their issues back in 2012. Keeping the lot codes is always a good idea -- I get a lot of reports from people who are quite happy with the results. If you can't afford a more expensive food, this is a reasonable "budget" option that you don't have to feel badly about.

Stay on a food for at least 2-3 months from here on out. Constant switching will give your dog diarrhea, even after the worms are gone.
 

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I'm so excited to hear of someone using the Animal Biome Capsules with success!


I've suggested it to several people this past year who did not want to do the "fresh" Fecal Matter from the vet! LOL


Here is the site for anyone interested: https://www.animalbiome.com/



Moms :)

YES the Poo Pills really seemed to help!!! Our vet suggested we contact Animal Biome as she read about them in a journal and thought it was an option instead of the fresh fecal transfer.
 

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One word of warning: hookworms live in the soil. They're now in your backyard -- your dog pooped out eggs, and now the eggs are turning into larvae in the soil, waiting for a new host. They infect mammals by burrowing through through the soles of feet or paws when they walk over the soil. Humans can get hookworms. You must wear shoes in your backyard now -- and if you have kids, make them wear shoes too (not always easy in summertime, but very, very important to avoid an infection).


This story and pictures of a human infection will drive home why you have to be careful:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-trip-to-florida-you-cant-unsee-these-images/


Wondercide told me that their cedar oil yard spray kills hook worms. I have used it for that purpose (bonus: it kills mosquitoes, fleas, and ticks too). http://www.wondercide.com
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I never go without shoes period. Xena is on HeartGuard for heart worms and it's suppose to protect against hookworms and she hasn't missed a dose since I've had her so the vet is going to contact Heartguard. I really thought the loose stools were stress since this was almost back to back to back stressors for her. Xena does like to dig in the ground and eat grass. I just don't know where she got it since we are in the yard and the trainers that's it.
 
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