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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This little guy is our new puppy. The breeder just said he is a sable. Dad is Black and Tan and mom is maskless Black and Tan. I have looked through thousand of pics trying to find one like our guy. I haven’t had much luck. The breeder said he would grow up with more gray wolf like colors. Is this a true color? The pics below are from a range of 2 weeks. He is 5 weeks today, so we don’t pick him up for 3 more weeks. I googled and found the term maskless. If this is wrong please correct me! I have had a love for German shepherds my whole life but was never allowed to get one. I am finally getting my dream!
 

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Your puppy definitely looks to be sable, but if mom and dad are black/tan than either they have the color wrong on one parent or another dog got in with mom. Two black/tan dogs can not create a sable since sable is a dominant color and needs at least one parent to be that color. Do you have pictures of the parents?
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I Posted a picture...but i'm not seeing it. I'm not sure if my posts are being approved or not. sorry admin if you just haven't approved my previous message!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
After looking at the pedigree, the dad’s grandpa is a sable. But his papers say he is ack Black and Tan. I haven’t received the moms papers yet. I asked.
 

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Is the middle dog on the right an intact male? Maybe he's the dad. If so maybe the pup will be a maskless version of him.

That said I'm guessing this is a byb breeder situation but I could be wrong. But considering the supposed dad's ears look pretty floppy unless he's really something I wouldn't want pups out of him.

I'm from up in MT and probably not what you want to hear, but there's a lot of not very good breeders around here.

That said cute pup and if you're getting him I hope he's healthy and everything you want!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Appreciate the advice ! The pup in the middle is another female, she has 3 females and the 1 male in the back. And the dad has his ears up in another pic she sent me.? I know they aren’t top of the line show quality. But from what she has said they are akc and good tempered. I am going to visit here in a week. any idea on his coloring ? He seems really light compared to others that I can’t get a good guess of what his colors will be like as an adult. Not that it matters. Just curious I suppose.
 

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your pup will be a very light sable probably. What drew you to this breeder? The dog in front, right looks more sable? The dog on the left looks like a mix, not a full GSD.
 
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I think the dam's head looks remarkably like that of the sire. Are you sure that the dam is not his daughter from a previous breeding? Perhaps out of one of the two other females? Maybe it is just the quality of the picture.

With that said, I think the pup will have a different but interesting look when it grows up. I would love to follow the color progression as sables go through a lot of color changes before maturing.
 

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I don't know how to say this gently...but, my dog is BYB. BUT, I spent time with both the dam and the sire and was impressed by both! Good conformation and temperment for both parents, and good coloration as well! I also did not pay AKC rates.

So, OP, if this breeder is asking anywhere near AKC rates for this puppy, I'd run! The dogs in the picture you posted all have very washed out colors, and the sire has weak ears!

What is the attraction? If it were me I'd pass! Find a good breeder to get a puppy from, you'll be glad you did!
 

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1. Was the litter registered with the AKC?
2. Did the breeder hand you the puppies AKC registration papers with her signature on it signing the puppy over to you?
3. If a sable is a strong color they will have a dark mask, a black stripe running down its back and black pencil marks over all of its toes.
4. Masks get lighter not darker.
5. There is a good chance the puppy might end up being a light color all over its body
6. Pigment and color have nothing to do with the way the puppy will behave or perform
7. Please read AKC German Shepherd standards or DDR German Shepherd Standards.
 

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I have had a love for German shepherds my whole life but was never allowed to get one. I am finally getting my dream!

That is a cute puppy.
You waited your whole life to get a GSD, I really hope this dog is what you want. I truly mean that.
But, here are the genetics. We cannot see mom very well, she could be a very light patterned sable but she looks black and tan and two black and tans did not produce a sable puppy.
This breeder is clearly a BYB and Tim is correct, the sable female is not bad looking, dad is not a great example of the breed and the female you say is mom may not be purebred. I would very much like to see better pictures of mom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thank you all. I am on the fence as to what to do now. She is not asking akc prices. I have not picked up the puppy, so I haven’t seen papers.

Honestly, the attraction is several things. I can not afford a $1500-3500 dog. Although I would really love to. She claimed that parents were akc and has the papers for that and the parents hips and elbows.

Here is a few pictures of the mom with her liter. But if she doesn’t look as good, I’m concerned. I’ve seen a picture of an offspring she has produced and the pup looked good. I’ll attach that picture as well.
 

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I'd spend time with her "pack" before committing and make sure you like their temperaments etc. How old are her other dogs? How do they look getting around? Do they appear happy and healthy and loved?

If you are paying a little more than say an adoption fee from a good rescue (maybe around 400 a little north or south) then just understand you are in the same territory of adopting (which is fine). You won't know any genetic potentials for illness like HD. Take the money you are saving from buying a well bred dog with health testing and guarantees. and invest it in a good pet insurance. Personally I carry it on every dog regardless of breeding and how much I've paid for it, but it is even more of an important safety net when you are dealing with unknowns.
 

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I suppose the question to ask is, What do you want from the dog? Is it going to be a family pet dog? A dog to do dog shows? Sports or service dog related goals?

Yes it is a gamble going with a back yard breeder, but sometimes you find that diamond in the ruff like I did. I only paid 400$ for my girl. The breeder had all the AKC registration paperwork/lineage from the parents, signed the puppy over to me. The 400$ was the partial AKC registration because I don't plan on breeding her, so I figured the extra 400$ to pay for the full registration would be dumb.

A BYB puppy can be an amazing dog, but yes it is a gamble. I really think its all about how quick you get the puppy started with training. We started Mei out at 9 weeks. She napped a lot during class, mostly when the trainers were just talking, but I quickly realized the training is more for the owners than the dog. We did the puppy obedience group class for about 8 weeks, continued training on our own for a couple months then hired a personal trainer, who would come to the house or go out into public.

I guess what I'm getting at, is do what you believe is right for your family. Love the puppy for what it is, mix or not, and keep him happy. From your other thread it sounds like you have a good plan in place and will get him into training as soon as possible.
 

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I think as long as your expectations are not that of a well bred German Shepherd ( by that I mean lack of minor/major faults per the standard) and you are not getting this pup to breed....then I see nothing wrong with getting this pup. Sometimes us “ experts” can be somewhat elitist. Health wise, I find that lesser bred dogs are more times healthier than our “pedigreed champions”. You sound like you want a nice pet and you would be a good home, so why doesn’t that pup deserve you. Good Luck!
 

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When black and tan dogs are bred to sable dogs, you can often get genetic sables with the black and tan pattern.....even in black and tans, there are light to no masks.....I would say the mother is a sable - a black and tan pattern gene sable - that is why she has a faded saddle. She obviously carries the white gene, which is present to some degree, masking her color, another reason of why she is so faded....there are white pups in the litter. I do not believe she is a mix, just a more randomly bred purebred dog who does not have a carefully chosen, higher quality pedigree - AKC does not offer any quality control, just registration of facts. Think of your car registration and the state license - ownership and origin (make and model) information.

This breeder seems to have a small pack of dogs - I believe him when he says that they are AKC as again, registration means that they have papers indicating origin of purebred stock and ownership...nothing more. If there are hip and elbow certifications on parents, and you get the names, you can look them up on ofa.org database....at the very least for a back yard breeding, that would be a positive....

I am not going to preach the wisdom of buying a pup from a more reputable, responsible breeder...you already have the pros and cons of that....and dogs from every type of breeder can end up with issues - your risk is less with a well bred litter....
 
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