[derekscriv2008]

I have a german shepheard pup named Duke. He is currently 4 months old and I would like to teach him level 1 protection (on command). The barking at the end of the leash the lunging and showing the teeth, and guarding the house to the point of alerting us when an intruder comes into the house. To the point that if the intruder decides he wants to come in he is going to have major problems :hug:

i would like to start this training at 5-6 months of age. if you have any tips or trainning plans i would very much appreciate it. Or have any ideas where i could recieve plans or places that i might look into to become a student along with duke at a trainning school

anything helps!

 

[Castlemaid]

You should post below in the Schutzhund section or the K9 police and protection dog section - the protection dog section is not very active, but new posts usually get answered by knowledgeable people.

I don't think that there are official protection levels - different trainers use different terms. You will have a lot of people come on here and tell you that it is not your puppy's job to protect you, but your job to protect him - and I agree with the sentiment.

However I don't think there is anything wrong with proper, knowledgeable training as you describe it, but I hope you realize you will have to wait until your pup is mentally mature to actually be protective, which could be when he is around 2 or 3 years old.

This is not something that you can really teach on your own - eventually you will need a trainer to play the part of the bad guy and have your pup alert on him. I'd contact a Schutzhund club - but most clubs will not teach just the protection phase, and will expect members to participate and train in all three phases.

There are private trainers out there too, but finding a good one is hard. Many just use too much threat and too much pressure on young dogs to turn them into fearful, reactive, nerve-bags. Most people cannot really differentiate between an agressive reaction brought on by fear (not good - dog may feel overwhelmed and decide to run), and a truly defensive reaction based on the unbeatable inner belief the dog has they they can whoop this guy!!!

In the meantime, my tip and suggestion to you would be to build your relationship with your pup, socialize him to the HILT so he has vast exposure to everyday normal people and situations and learns to discriminate between safe and a little weird, and truly odd and threatening people and situations, and play lots and lots of tug with him, getting him amped up for the toy to build his drives, and letting him win always to build his confidence.

 

[Emoore]

I don't think that there are official protection levels - different trainers use different terms.

What the OP is describing is almost exactly the PA title in SDA (Service dogs of America).

Derek, if I were you I'd look for a SDA chapter or club near you.

 

[Liesje]

What the OP is describing is almost exactly the PA title in SDA (Service dogs of America).

Derek, if I were you I'd look for a SDA chapter or club near you.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I did a PA with my dog and it involves a lot of control work, training the dog to alert on command, remain alert until recalled, recalling the dog, and the dog alerting when threatened (without command). "Alerting" means going out to the end of the leash and barking/showing some aggression. The PA level does not involve biting (though my dog was already trained to bite for Schutzhund and higher Protection levels on the suit).

If you're going to do this type of work I would wait until the dog is more mature. Often the SDA protection work is more "real" and confrontational than Schutzhund. With a puppy I would focus on developing a strong bond and starting a solid foundation in obedience and control. Maybe when the dog is about a year old, have it evaluated for the protection training.

If you do the SDA protection titles you will also have to complete the obedience parts as well.

 

[doggiedad]

i think you should find a professional. i also think you need to
find the right method or steps to proceed with protection traning.
keep in mind if an intruder hears your dog barking and proceeds to enter
the house then the intruder knows they can over power your dog. i had a trainer who's dog was PP trained. if you were breaking into her house she taught her dog to go upstairs and go under the bed if you proceeded to enter the house after hearing the dog bark. her thoughts were if you hear the dog barking barking and you enter the house then you knew you could over power the dog. she didn't want to loose her dog. find professional help and do it right from day one.

why do you want a PP dog? do you really need that type of dog?

I have a german shepheard pup named Duke. He is currently 4 months old and I would like to teach him level 1 protection (on command). The barking at the end of the leash the lunging and showing the teeth, and guarding the house to the point of alerting us when an intruder comes into the house. To the point that if the intruder decides he wants to come in he is going to have major problems :hug:

i would like to start this training at 5-6 months of age. if you have any tips or trainning plans i would very much appreciate it. Or have any ideas where i could recieve plans or places that i might look into to become a student along with duke at a trainning school

anything helps!

 

[derekscriv2008]

I would love to have a PP dog and the question of do i really need it no, I work on base and live on base. i would like to start attending competions with the Military Working Dogs on base. Also im am looking to start a family and would hate to have to move somewhere where its less "protected" and the dog and the house to fall sort with secuirty.


Level 1
THREAT DOG

The level 1 dog is trained to show an aggressive display on command. This dog will lunge, show teeth, and bark aggressively at the end of the leash towards any aggressor who tries to approach once his "protect" command is given. Weapons, yelling, or other forms of intimidation will not cause this dog to back down. Although this dog will most likely bite if an aggressor physically challenged the dog, the level 1 dog is not specifically trained how to most effectively fight the aggressor as is the level 2 dog. The level 1 dog's main purpose is as a deterrent (which is usually enough for most situations

 

[GSDElsa]

Please enlist the assistance of an experienced PPD trainer.

 

[derekscriv2008]

I am currently in the seach for a PPD trainer just attemping to see what people thought. Trying to put more heads together to make sure i get the right training for my dog. he is freindly and a great dog and i would hate to hinder that by using a trainer that had no idea what he was doing. i want to never lose the confidence that I am in control of the dog. do you know what i mean when he walks up to a little kid i never want to have that split second of well what is he going to do.

 

[JKlatsky]

Generally an aggressive display done in the barking needs to wait until the dog is more mentally mature than 5 or 6 months old. The dog has to be tough enough to handle the pressure and it also very desirable for the dog to show a certain amount of natural suspicion or sharpness. This will make it easier to tap into when you do train the dog. However, this has the other edge to it where you are going to have to keep up with the socializing. Generally the awesome family pet has solid nerves, a high threshold for defense and pretty moderate to low suspicion. A PPD should have a lower threshold for defense and more natural suspicion...but still the good nerves.

You will HAVE to get with someone experienced because this is simply not something you can do on your own. A decoy who pushes too hard at the wrong moment can destroy the dog's confidence as he's learning to treat a threat with aggression, so it's critical to have someone who really knows what they are doing.

 

[Ace952]

i had a trainer who's dog was PP trained. if you were breaking into her house she taught her dog to go upstairs and go under the bed if you proceeded to enter the house after hearing the dog bark. her thoughts were if you hear the dog barking barking and you enter the house then you knew you could over power the dog. she didn't want to loose her dog. find professional help and do it right from day one.

No offense but I wouldn't want a PP dog like that. Wouldn't even consider it a PP dog. I want my dog to be confident. The house is his and see's it as such.

 

[Ace952]

Ok......
What are you doing with the dog right now?
Are you building his prey drive and if so how?
Have you found any trainers out there in Wyoming?
Who have you seen work their dogs in person?
Level 1 Protection is just an Alert bark.
Bite work would be Level 2.
Stay away from SchH or any other "sport" because you are not wanting a sport dog but rather a PPD dog. There is a big difference.

Ok let me go back. You said that you want a PPD & that you want to do competitions. What kind of competitions? If you want to do competitions thats ok, join a club for that particular sport. Do that "sport" first and then when you are done, then you can move to training the dog for PPD.

Having a dog alert bark and then taking on a attacker are 2 separate things that have to be trained for and that is more than a level 1.

You want a clear headed social dog with a "on & off switch". You can have that for sure. You want that puppy to be a lover before you turn him into a killer.

 

[Emoore]

No offense but I wouldn't want a PP dog like that. Wouldn't even consider it a PP dog. I want my dog to be confident. The house is his and see's it as such.

I wouldn't consider it a PP dog, but I wouldn't say it's lack of confidence. The dog is just doing what it's trained to do. If somebody breaks into a house with a barking dog, obviously they are prepared to deal with the dog. . . probably by killing it. I'm training Rocky (and will train Kopper) to alert bark like maniacs at intruders outside the house, but to run and get behind me if anyone breaks in. After all, my 12-gauge has a wide shot pattern and I'd hate to hit them by mistake.

 

[Ace952]

I wouldn't consider it a PP dog, but I wouldn't say it's lack of confidence. The dog is just doing what it's trained to do. If somebody breaks into a house with a barking dog, obviously they are prepared to deal with the dog. . . probably by killing it. I'm training Rocky (and will train Kopper) to alert bark like maniacs at intruders outside the house, but to run and get behind me if anyone breaks in. After all, my 12-gauge has a wide shot pattern and I'd hate to hit them by mistake.

LOL!! Now i can understand that!

 

[hunterisgreat]

The proper base for a protection dog is a confident, high prey drive, obedient dog that really wants to train. Your job right now is to create a dog a professional trainer/helper can work with... it is next to impossible to have a PPD that is personally trained. Bitework is inherently a two man operation with you not being on the business end. this means you should be building prey drive, building focus, teaching obedience, and working on building his confidence. You want him enthusiasticly doing bitework and having fun, not showing teeth as all this starts as a big fun game for the dog. A dog that is showing teeth is working in defensive drive (he's scared the aggressor is going to hurt him if he doesn't bite). Things to do for now:
Always play with towels, bite pillows, and such as though rapidly moving them in front of the dog (you want the dog to look like the way a kitten plays with a string). When he chases it well and makes good bites he wins the toy... when he drops the toy or isn't paying attention you snatch it back. Do this every day for the rest of the dogs life
Take the dog out and around places foreign to him that will put him under *a little* pressure. Keep stepping it up if the dog is getting comfortable wherever you are. Make the dog go over less than stable surfaces. I take my dogs down docks, on floating dogs, jump on my patio tables, and whatever else is a little sketchy underfoot. All these things help build confidence in the dog.
If you want a dog that is actually going to bite (and this is trained, not natural), you need to encourage him to be mouthy... no reprimanding him for mouthing your hands or shoe laces or pants legs.
You should also probably start working on training him/her to bark on command
Finally, remember that puppies should never ever be in defensive drive.

Most important part is to find a professional

BTW, its pretty rare for military dogs or police dogs cross train with civilians.

 

[Ace952]

I agree with a lot that Hunter said.

I will add that right now you should be focusing on the flirt pole. Just you and your pup and the flirt pole.

No more than 3x a week with 2 sessions each time & let the session last for a max of 10 minutes. You don't want to burn your pupp out and keep it short sessions and fun. Anymore at this age is overkill and can do more harm than good.

i.e. Mon, Wed & Fri each day 2 sessions. 7 am session and a 6pm session. 10 min max each session. Build up that prey drive.

I think a great dog should have 50% defense & 50% prey.
Now for myself I prefer 70% defense 30% prey for my PP but again that is my preference as he doesn't do any "sport" work.

Since you said you want to do sport as well you want balance so 50/50 = defense/prey.

You should be working on the flirt pole, basic ob (sit, down, loose heel, out & short stay) & getting his recall to be close to 100% as possible.

 

[hunterisgreat]

Just realized I have a typo.... I don't take my dogs on floating dogs... rather, floating docks lol

Agree with Ace... the dog/pup should never end the training session tired & disinterested. You always end with him wanting to keep going.

I will say this though... the OP should not have his dog in defensive drive at all ever (right now, at his training ability). Not because that isn't an important part and absolutely necessary for a real PPD, but because his inexperience is more than likely going to hurt the situation.

I think that when really trying to transition a sport dog to a PPD, the bite work should be majority defensive drive... or the grey area of "fight drive" that I think is really just a mix of both drives.

Finally, remember that a PPD is mostly useful as a deterrent. A persistent premeditated threat is just going to shoot your dog

 

[cliffson1]

Go to sdadatabase.com and read up on SDA(Service Dogs of America), you may find it is something along the lines you are seeking.

 

[Ace952]

I agree hunter. At that age, it should be all prey and all of it should be fun.

 

[dOg]

Your puppy is still too young for bitework because he will soon be loosing teeth and getting adult ones and until they are all in, it would be painful not fun. Keep this in mind even with a flirt pole, and by all means, take advantage of this time to build the bond playing fun games, but be mindful of the teething.

 

[damaya]

Hunter and Ace- that was good advice right there.

Not that I am any kind of expert, (nor do I play one on the internet) but that goes exactly like I am learning. I had the opportunity to watch my first training session last Friday night. That was the method taught. Nothing but fun for the younger ones, but totally different game for the big dogs at the end. Completely impressive. 6 month olds were out there chasing the sock on a stick while "Dirk" I think, made the guy dress out in the "big suit".

I am on a waiting list and am intrigued by protection training. While advanced obedience is for sure I realize the protection is a serious full on commitment. Not to mention having the right temperment is a must. I can see where all dogs are certainly not candidates for this as well not all owners.

Good advice here though. Thanks.