[WiscTiger]

I want to have a discussion about Probioitics, what are the benefits, what are the costs, when would be a good time to try Probioitics.

Wisc.Tiger - Admin

 

[WiscTiger]

OK, here are my thoughts.

There is good tummy bacteria and there is bad. The use of Probioitics will increase the good and with a better good level it will decrease the bad level. So what benefit can that be, I will give you some things that I have seen.

Lakota, always had a funky coat, it was like two dogs in one, his front half was nice - his back half was dry brittle no luster. With Probioitics his entire coat is glossy. It might have been the season, but he didn't have as much trouble with his seasonal allergies.

Raya, my picky picky eater. I have just started her on Probioitics and have seen an increase of her appitite, while not great I expect to continue to see it get better.

When giving Probioitics I don't believe you will see huge instant results, but it is more cummulative type thing. You need to give the Probioitics every day if you are giving it.

Cost to be is relativley inexpensive. $13.50 per dog per month.

Val

 

[WiscTiger]

Here are some links to previous threads:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...true#Post518978

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...true#Post518143

 

[BowWowMeow]

Which probiotics are you using?

 

[tracyc]

A question---are the probiotics found in ordinary plain yogurt beneficial? Are there enough of them to make a difference? Are the other probiotics better?

I've fed both my dogs a small amount of plain yogurt every day since they were babies. So I don't have any "before" to compare to, but both have always been very healthy. So is the yogurt helping, or is it just a treat they enjoy?

 

[WiscTiger]

I use a capsule Probioitic that is a human supplement. It contains Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium lactis and FOS Prebioitics, from a company called Melaleuca.

My thoughts are that all dogs could benefit from Probioitics, some may need more than others.

I can't find the exact numbers right now, but if I remember correctly, to get the equivalent of what I use you would have to eat 12 cups of yogurt. Now I know I couldn't eat 12 cups of yogurt a day and some dogs don't tolerate lactos.

Have you guys noticed the new products on TV, the Activa and I can't remember the other one with the good bacteria. The science behind this isn't really new, I have been using what I give the dogs now for about 5 years.

I think if your dogs digestive tract isn't in balance it won't make any difference what you feed your dog will only do so good.

Right now I am only giving to 2 of my 4 dogs, but my plan is to get them all on it.

Val

 

[Brightelf]

It's a Bowl-O'-Bugz. Or, at least, that's what I keep telling Grimm, wanting him to finish the packet of SymbioLact probiotics dumped onto his food. He loves anything disgusting, so this is an incentive. He had the runs a while ago due to bacterial overgrowth from a huge transition-- a transatlantic move to a new continent-- and after antibiotics, we are doing probiotics for 2 weeks. When it's finished, i'll try a teaspoon-sized blob of yogurt on his food... the probiotics come from the people pharmacy and are WILDLY expensive.

 

[BowWowMeow]

Originally Posted By: Luca_stlA question---are the probiotics found in ordinary plain yogurt beneficial? Are there enough of them to make a difference? Are the other probiotics better?

I've fed both my dogs a small amount of plain yogurt every day since they were babies. So I don't have any "before" to compare to, but both have always been very healthy. So is the yogurt helping, or is it just a treat they enjoy?

Tracy,

I just read an article on yoghurt and probiotics. The article said the yoghurt must say "Live and Active Cultures" to have beneficial properties. Now whether a "small amount" is beneficial is another story altogether...

 

[tracyc]

The yogurt I feed does say "live active cultures." I give Luca about 3 tablespoonsfull a day.

 

[Catu]

I think that Probiotics are one of those things that my dog will benefit of me being the daughter of a Pediatrician. I can get them for free.

 

[LisaT]

I think that for therapeutic purposes, the cultures in yogurt aren't strong enough. For maintenance, it probably is, if the dog/person can tolerate yogurt. Sure wish that things like Activa and other yogurts didn't contain things like high fructose corn syrup, aspartame, etc. Finding a good yogurt can be challenging.

I always buy the probiotics from the refrigerated section of the health food store, and almost always get the ones that contain acidophilous, bifidus, and bulgaricus. Sometimes I get the regular ones, and I rotate between the enteric coated ones that are supposed to be more effective in the small intestines.

Here's a thread that jecg sent me quite awhile ago:

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthread.../gonew/1#UNREAD

 

[tracyc]

Plain yogurt does not contain any kind of sweeteners. It's the flavored ones that are sweetened.

 

[natalie559]

I found this, http://www.monicasegal.com/newsletters/2005-05NL.php

"Myth of The Month

All Probiotics Are Good.

This isn’t always the case. Remember that not only is this a fairly recent area of study but that so many of us look at studies based on the human population and assume the result would apply to dogs. In fact, it can be risky to interpret things that way. Just as we know that dogs are a different species with their own unique requirements, we need to consider that their reactions may be quite different from their human owners.

Case in point is the probiotic E. faecium. Some studies show that it actually increased the levels of salmonella and campylobacter in healthy dogs – not a good thing. Read labels and consider that your dog is a dog, not a person, before adding what should be good stuff in to the food bowl.

Our health section lists a study that covers this topic: PubMed Abstract PMID: 12903867. along with other relevant canine studies. This abstract is also posted in the files seciton of the K9Kitchen discussion group.

The study's full title, by the way, is The effect of a probiotic Enterococcus faecium product in diets of healthy dogs on bacteriological counts of Salmonella spp., Campylobacter spp. and Clostridium spp. in faeces"

I know that Acidophilus has been studied and proven good for dogs,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez...Pubmed_RVDocSum


http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Kitchen/message/14595

Probiotics - As little as is known about how these things work in humans, there is even less info about probiotics and animals. Some studies have been done but most of those were in farm animals such as cows. A very different animal from a dog - obviously.

As for which strain might be best, again, nobody knows but acidophillus seems to give great results. Many people believe that one of the benefits of using a single strain is that there is no competition this way. When we use a product that contains a variety of strains, there is a chance that they compete and either cancel each other out or reduce benefit.

With or without FOS - Fructooligosaccharides can provide "food" for a bacteria such as acidophilus and others. It's a simple carbohydrate. Some dogs can handle it while others can't. Some ( most? ) of the FOS in probiotics is dervied from cane sugar. This is not usually a problem but some dogs ( Zoey is one of them ) react poorly. FOS is said to be digested in the colon and may alter the bacteria
due to this. So to be on the safe side, I prefer to use a probiotic without FOS for dogs suffering with digestive problems. Many dogs, however, have no issues with FOS and the only way to know is to try it.

Remember that your dog already has beneficial bacteria in the system. You are not attempting to plant a brand new crop of something that doesn't exist. Probiotics may be helpful in perking up the system but your dog is not walking around without any beneficial bacteria so boosting one strain at a time is not unreasonable.

And, http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Kitchen/message/61564

"Hi Sandy

You wrote:
do dog probiotics use dog-specific strains of bacteria, or are they using human strains and assuming they work in dogs?

*** Many strains are under investigation. The one that has been studied best, and seems to work best without escalating numbers of unfriendly organisms is acidophilus.

Monica Segal - AHCW"

Soooooo, perhaps we should look for fewer strains or just acidophilus. . .

I am a big believer in probiotics after antibiotics, but have never used them daily for general wellness.

 

[LisaT]

I know that some look for FOS in the food (helps the growth of bacteria), but I think it had a negative effect on Max -- helped the bad stuff grow. Inulin and FOS do similar things, though they aren't probiotics, they can foster bacteria to grow, good and/or possibly bad.

As for what Monica Segal wrote, I believe that's true about that strain, but that doesn't mean that every strain other than acidophilous is bad. I find that she is extremely cautious about supplements -- often too cautious, though I understand why.

 

[Hellismd]

Tessa needs food with FOS because she has SIBO and this helps to beneficially alter the bacteria in her colon. I have had her on several types of food and the only thing that controlls her diarrhea is to have a food with FOS and the use of tylan powder.

As you said - it will depend on the dog.

 

[grmnshpd21]

Molly has SIBO and has been on Tylan now for about a year. I've tried weaning her off the Tylan, but the mushy poops always come back. She does well on the Tylan, but I do hope to one day have her off of it. My question is that I also give her a powdered form of probiotic and I give it to her with both her feedings every day. She gets a 1/4 teaspoon of Tylan and a 1/2 teason of probiotic mixed in with her food twice a day. Should I be giving them both to her at the same time like that or try and space it out? Any thoughts?

 

[LisaT]

You should space them out. Probably probiotics once before bedtime would be more effective than twice a day with the Tylan.

Holly, I think you were the reason that I tried the FOS. I was on the fence for a long time, but I was encouraged by your results. Sure with it would have worked for Max!!

Tracy, forgot about the plain yogurt -- good point!

 

[JenM66]

Gracie has SIBO and eats a food with FOS in it. If I try to add additional probiotics (be it yogurt or prozyme) her poos get terrible. I guess the food has just the right amount for HER system - each dog is different.

 

[G-burg]

Which foods have FOS in them?

 

[grmnshpd21]

Originally Posted By: G-burgWhich foods have FOS in them?

The only foods that I'm aware of that have FOS in them are Eukanuba Low Residue (prescription food) and the Eukanuba GSD food. If anyone knows of any other, let me know.