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Discussion Starter #1
How much should I worry about this? How many of you vaccinate against this? I hike alot with Berlin in the woods, I am a little worried about this... Plus, he picked up some goose poop today, ugh.

I know its spread by urine - in the water especially? I live by alot of water, lots of lakes...the fox river, des plaines river, a chain of lakes...plus, there are tons of little streams in the woods that I see.

Should I vaccinate for this? Is it worth it? Any other information regarding this?
 

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I don't, but if my dog was swimming in the kinds of bodies of water you are describing I probably would. Stagnant water can be an issue I believe too. I've always stayed away from the vaccine, because it can cause problems, but now a days so can not having it. You need to watch for Giardia, that is probably more common is goose poop and urine, even just sniffing these things can cause infection. Its crazy that we have to worry about all this stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah I know, ugh with all this flooding this past week, theres water EVERYWHERE!

Giardia....we've dealt with a severe case of it before, when he was 10 weeks old. So I know what to look for...and I know thats common in stagnant water. I try to keep him away from puddles and what not, but so hard right now. And these darn geese are everywhere!

What kind of problems does the vaccine cause?
 

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Because it can be transmitted to humans, I would vaccinate. I live near the beach and it can infect sea lions, they sometimes wash up on the beach, the dogs may want to check them out - they have a great smell for the dogs.
 

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The vaccine can cause lameness and stiffness in the legs. Some dogs vomit, become listless and its just a reaction to the shot. I don't know how long the reaction lasts and it doesn't affect all dogs, its just a chance it might happen. I am sure others know more, since I have never experienced it.
 

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I have been doing a lot of research on this and am still struggling with it. A lot of the information I have found I have posted here if you want to search the forum for leptospirosis
 

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My parents live on a farm with lots of wildlife around and we hike often so both my dogs have the lepto vaccine. I talked it over with two vets including my current vet who is very holistic and they both agreed it was worth vaccinating. It's a yearly vaccine and neither have had any reaction
 

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My vet advises against it EXCEPT if we tell her we'll be visiting an area that has lepto, then she'll do the vaccination.
 

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You do know that the vaccination is worthless unless she has had two shots three weeks apart if the interval has been more than one year? If you maintain annual status it is fine. But to develop immunity you need the two doses close together.

I ask because I have had vets give just one dose before then I started reading package inserts and asking about that. So I have had dogs immunized for lepto who probably never really were immunized.

Central Florida? I would think that would be lepto heaven
 

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I'm from Chicago, and now in Milwaukee. I vaccinate. I hike a lot and my boy gets to swim in quite the bit of streams. I also train close to "farm country" so its just safer to have it done than to risk him getting it.

We first got it done when he was a puppy (vet recommended) and at that time I didn't really research vaccines and just did whatever the vet told me. I guess we were lucky not to get a reaction and he hasn't had one since. I also do Lyme just in case (I know its only certain strains but whatever).

I'd really like to know what percentage of dogs react to the vaccine...if its just the "normal" percentage that react to any medicine, you really can't justify not vaccinating because there's less than a 5% chance your dog will react. All medicine has its risks, as long as the risk isn't possible death its probably going to do more good than bad.
 

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My concern is not "The" reaction to the vaccine at the one time but long term possibility of cancer due to the adjuvants in the vaccine (typically required for killed vaccines) and possible immune system impact from the other components of the vaccine.

And that of sending the sickness subclinical and chronic (my vet meeting on this will be May 1)-most versions of the vaccine are NOT shown to prevent kidney colonizaiton and subsequent shedding of spirochetes which can continue infecting other animals. They only reduce clinical severity of the acute phase of the disease. They also don't cover all of the strains of lepto that are infecting dogs.

The last dog (Grim) who developed subcutaneous hemangiosarcoma-the tumor was over his shoulder where he would get shots. ......... was that inflammation from shots, from microchip, from jumping out of truck for so many years, was it totally unrelated? What set that up?
 

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Due to our logistics, I have all my dogs vaccinated. I've never had a known problem due to the vaccine.
 

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I have Wolfie vaccinated for Lepto. We have a lot of deer, rabbits, etc running through our yard. I do spread out the shots so he doesn't get hit with everything at once. For example if he has a rabies shot coming, I will do that and then do lepto and lyme at another appointment. I won't allow more than 2 shots given at one visit.
 

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My concern is not "The" reaction to the vaccine at the one time but long term possibility of cancer due to the adjuvants in the vaccine (typically required for killed vaccines) and possible immune system impact from the other components of the vaccine.

And that of sending the sickness subclinical and chronic (my vet meeting on this will be May 1)-most versions of the vaccine are NOT shown to prevent kidney colonizaiton and subsequent shedding of spirochetes which can continue infecting other animals. They only reduce clinical severity of the acute phase of the disease. They also don't cover all of the strains of lepto that are infecting dogs.

The last dog (Grim) who developed subcutaneous hemangiosarcoma-the tumor was over his shoulder where he would get shots. ......... was that inflammation from shots, from microchip, from jumping out of truck for so many years, was it totally unrelated? What set that up?
See...I get what you're saying, and that your worry is the cause/effect of the vaccine. You're right, if you don't need it, or believe that the risk of contracting lepto (or severity of that disease) is not worth the risk of contracting cancer (which might be caused by the vaccine). But since you don't know if the vaccine will cause the cancer, and if the dog does get cancer you can't truly link the cancer to said vaccine...I don't know if the advice should be to not give the vaccine.

I'm understanding your argument, and I do believe in not over-vaccinating but I guess my thought process is that the risk of cancer from the vaccine is much less than the risk and pain of the disease. No offense to you, but it just sounds like you're really reaching for a reason (although its a good one).
 

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I give the lepto shot. My dogs have never had an adverse reaction to it, but one of my friend's dog did - she noticed on the way home from the vet's office that her dog was acting strange, and was told to give benadryl, which took care of the problem. Obviously, she'll never give that shot again. But my vet recommends it because of all the water and wildlife here. It's a tough call, but I think it's a good idea to give this shot, since this is a high risk area.
 

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See...I get what you're saying, and that your worry is the cause/effect of the vaccine. You're right, if you don't need it, or believe that the risk of contracting lepto (or severity of that disease) is not worth the risk of contracting cancer (which might be caused by the vaccine). But since you don't know if the vaccine will cause the cancer, and if the dog does get cancer you can't truly link the cancer to said vaccine...I don't know if the advice should be to not give the vaccine.

I'm understanding your argument, and I do believe in not over-vaccinating but I guess my thought process is that the risk of cancer from the vaccine is much less than the risk and pain of the disease. No offense to you, but it just sounds like you're really reaching for a reason (although its a good one).
Not just reaching for a reason at all! Not all brands of the 4 way actually have data to prove they PREVENT the infection in the first place. Most even say they don't prevent shedding-that they only reduce the clinical severity of the disease. If my dog gets sick AND I give him doxy, I can completely eradicate it. If the vaccine does not make him have symptoms, the bacteria may still be hosted in the kidneys, causing chronic low level undiagnosed infection for years (AND infecting others)

That is why I have a heart to heart scheduled with my vet because I believe the Merial product is the only one worth giving. No adjuvants and documented efficacy. Realizing that two of the major servovars infecting dogs are not controlled by any of the 4 way vaccines.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Nancy, I have been reading up on your posts about your research. Please keep me informed with how your talk with your vet goes. If I do give it, should it be the merial brand? I am going to call the vet when I get out of class and see what they say about it. If he gets it, it will be the only vaccine as he's not due for boosters of the others until November.

Is Lepto fatal? The vaccine needs to be given twice, then once a year? Does t prevent it? If they get Lepto, what are the symptoms? Any way to treat it?

Is northern il a high risk area? Thanks for all the responses everyone!


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 

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YOU cannot buy the Merial. I will definitely update after my talk with the vet; she has some documentation waiting for me. Believe me, I really am struggling with this one. I know others just give it and when I have given it there has never been an immediate problem so my concerns are more long term as well as efficacy related.

Lepto is given annualy once an initial 2 dose immunization is given. Outbreaks are typically late summer / early fall so I figure to immunize June/July would be best for me if I do.

Don't know about your locale. CDC used to track lepto outbreaks and they don't anymore.

Wikipedia has a pretty good page.
Leptospirosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting article on transmission to humans
http://www.2ndchance.info/leptospirosis-DogToMan.pdf

Hygeine article
Feature: Preventing Zoonotic Disease Transmission - PoliceK-9Magazine.com

Police K9 Magazine - note many DHLPP vaccines still only carry 2, not 4 servovars but all the separate vaccines carry 4 as do some of the DHLPP
Leptospirosis
 

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I do not vaccinate for Lepto because of the problems with the vaccine and because most of the dogs I've known who've gotten lepto were vaccinated against it. The vaccine does not cover all of the strains.

It is prevalent here. We have a lot of rats (the most common carriers, as I understand it) and the dog across the street actually died from lepto. I know all of the symptoms and if Rafi had any of those I would immediately test for it.

Another precautionary step I've taken is that he must be released to go into or drink from any water. That prevents him drinking stagnant water or going into yucky water.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Okay, so apparently he was vaccinated for this? Twice, spread out, back in october. The brand the vet used was PFIZER, and I looked up their website, and their lepto vacc protects against 4 strains as well. Nancy, do you have any information on this brand?

My vet also wanted me to do it every 6 months as they said the vaccine does not last longer than 10 months or so. So he'd be due for one next month.

Glad he is atleast somewhat protected from this, and glad he didnt have any adverse reactions!


Also asked about titers for parvo/distemper, they offer them, and they are cheap! So, he will be getting titers for those two after his 1 year shots this year.
 
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