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Discussion Starter #1
Even though Cooper is young I need to convey to him that horses are dangerous!!!!!!!
I have had some near misses wher he has wondered between their legs. He is paticularly interested in the tails. Just might be a toy?
 

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i would try and keep cooper on a leash around the horses until he learns to respect their space so one of those near misses doesnt become a serious accident.

Mya comes to the barn with me sometimes and she will sniff them nose to nose through the fence but knows shes not allowed to go in. She also seems to be fearful of them and when they are in the isle in the barn she tends to walk off to the side and she creeps down to get by.

If you could maybe wrap their tails until he learns not to play with them?
 

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Some once said if a dog like cooper gets kicked once by a horse, he will have learned and be more intelligent as a result.

I starting to lean toward a philosophy that states letting dogs learn by trial and error in situations like you described is much better then training, and the result is the dogs that are allowed that freedom are more intelligent.
 

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Originally Posted By: Timber1Some once said if a dog like cooper gets kicked once by a horse, he will have learned and be more intelligent as a result.

I starting to lean toward a philosophy that states letting dogs learn by trial and error in situations like you described is much better then training, and the result is the dogs that are allowed that freedom are more intelligent.
Or Cooper never gets the opportunity to learn and become more intelligent because now he's dead.

People severely underestimate the power of a kick from a horse, but it can seriously injure or kill a dog very easily.

Likewise, all it takes is one bite in the right spot on the lower leg from a dog, and the horse is lame for life.

Not to mention, a sudden or surprise movement by a dog (predator) can easily send a prey animal (horse) into a spook, which can lead to an injured or dead horse, injured or dead dog, injured or dead human, damage to property and fencing....

Not worth the risk.

The dog needs to be socialized to the horses so he is comfortable with them and desensitized to them to the point where they're just there and aren't seen as a playmate, prey object or any other sort of attraction. But he doesn't need to get that up close and personal with the horses to accomplish this. And he needs to be taught to stay away from them. Not avoid them entirely, but keep out from underfoot and a few feet away so that there is little danger of the horse becoming startled or alarmed or the dog getting underfoot.
 

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If a horse connects with a kick at the right time of the extension of the kick it can break a human leg or arm. Since a dog and especially a pup is much smaller has smaller bones major damage even death could occur.

Also if the pup is tormenting the pup a horse could pick it up give it a shake and a toss, not sure the pup could survive that. My mare was fine with my dogs, but would go after strange dogs with the intent to kill. When she had enough of my dogs she would give a little kick out, but she would look how close the dog was to her and that was her warning, the dogs then figured out she had enough of them and was done playing. PS I never let my pups around her unless I had tehm on a leash and when she was tired of the dogs I was alsways out when the dogs were out I would call them out of her pasture.

Before I got my mare, her pasture buddy picked up a 200 lb. pig and killed it by shaking it to death.

Put the pup on a leash and teach it to repect the horse.
 

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I had forgotten the picking up and giving a toss, but yes some horses will do that in addition to kicking with the rear, striking with the front, or trampling if another animal is seen as a threat or an annoyance. They will generally give plenty of warning signals before getting to that point, but a puppy isn't likely to notice or understand equine body language.

I know one person who's dog liked to chase horse tails and who decided to let the horse teach the dog how to behave.... the dog took a kick to the head which knocked out several teeth and broke the dog's jaw. The dog ended up ok, but not until after several expensive vet visits, 2 surgeries and weeks of having to be fed through a tube because the dog's jaw was wired shut.
 

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I don’t want to be repetitive but being both a dog owner and a horse owner (as Chris & Val also are) I have to agree with others and recommend against letting a dog chase after any horse. Learning the hard way (in this case) will not make a dog more intelligent. It can result in major injury, brain trauma and even death.

I have experienced a dog that continued to chase a horse even after being kicked apparently it wasn’t injured badly enough the first time.


I agree with socializing the dog with the horse. Start slow and in a very controlled environment. Have a leash & gentle leader or prong collar on the dog. Just introduce them the first time. Next time make it a little longer. Increase it slowly. If the dog lunges at the horse correct him.
 

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I have been in the middle of a horse/dog incident at a friends farm.

I was in a stall with one of her horses, when a JRT (and we all know how feisty THEY are!) came flying in, launched itself on the rear hip area of the horse, the horse in defense went nuts, and lets just say the dog got kicked in the head.

It was not killed, but had major head/brain damage, tho it lived, it was not normal, and eventually passed away from fluid on the brain.

It was NOT pretty, and could have so easily been avoided had the dog not been allowed to "roam" around the horses.
diane
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Live by trial and error is great when an error will not result in permanent injury or death!
I do keep Cooper on a leash but I start to work and forget just how clueless he is. I have a staff member of where he goes to pkt coming out tomorrow. I just want her to see the set up and see if I am on the right course or what to do.
When the Boxer was real little I kept her inside when the place was real busy and I couldn't devote 100% to the boxer. I might do this with Quincy. I just didn't want him to miss out on the social aspect.
I will let you know how it goes.
 

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Originally Posted By: Timber1Some once said if a dog like cooper gets kicked once by a horse, he will have learned and be more intelligent as a result.

I starting to lean toward a philosophy that states letting dogs learn by trial and error in situations like you described is much better then training, and the result is the dogs that are allowed that freedom are more intelligent.
Sorry, but in the case of horses and/or cattle this is the WORST thing you can do. It is like saying that if you let them chase cars until they get run over, they will learn and not do it anymore.

A dog doesn't have a chance against something the size of a horse or cow. Heck, both of the above can KILL a person accidentally(sp) without half trying. (Let alone intentionally.) My dogs aren't allowed in the pastures unless I am in there AND they are invited in. They know what "GET OUT" means too, and if we(the dogs and I) are out there and the horses start going towards the dogs, I tell them to "get out" and they do. I have several mares that would think nothing of stomping a dog into the dirt.

If I am doing something with the horses outside of the pasture, the dogs know to stay away. When I have a pup, it is either in the kennel or tied up. I have enough to think about when messing with horses, I don't need to have to worry about what the pup is doing too.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
What a waste of money. First she wanted to use the prong colar. Then she wanted me to send him to in kennel trainning for a month! HE IS !2 WEEKS OLD! He did great on everything but she said he is too bonded to me. Aren't they supposed to be at this age?
I guess I would CONSIDER sending him away (my opinion the lazy mans training). Cooper would have to be closer to a year. She said she doesn't work on commissions yet she suggested the Boxer be sent to in house training? The dog has multuple obedience titles and is a service dog. She was on the money when she said Mia was spoiled.
 

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Yikes... waste of money indeed. Though perhaps money well spent as now you've gotten to see some of this trainer's true colors and that will no doubt influence your decision on whether or not to stick with this particular trainer.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Do many people send their dogs away? My husband likes the idea.
 

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Some folks do "send them away" for training. The thing you have to consider is that just because they learn to obey the trainer, does NOT mean they will listen to YOU when they come home. More often than not, when the dog returns "home" to the owner, they revert back to their old selves.
Think of a child that is perfectly behaved at school but is a little "monster" when at home in the presence of it's parents. They (dogs and children both) learn to respect those that demand it. If the owner/parents don't demand respect, they will NOT get it.
 

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Originally Posted By: BlackGSDSome folks do "send them away" for training. The thing you have to consider is that just because they learn to obey the trainer, does NOT mean they will listen to YOU when they come home. More often than not, when the dog returns "home" to the owner, they revert back to their old selves.
Exactly.

In addition to the respect factor, there is also the issue of communication. Dog training is really learning how to communicate with a dog. Sending the dog to a trainer teaches the dog to learn how to understand that trainer, but if the dog's owner also doesn't learn how to properly communicate with the dog, motivate, reward and correct the dog, it falls apart.

To use the child analogy, imagine sending your child off to learn French. The child may become completely fluent, but if mom and dad don't also know French, they're going to have a hard time having good dinner conversation.

And obedience training in general, while an important part of teaching a dog how to act around horses, doesn't address the specific issue of the horses. The only way to do that is for someone to work with the dog, at home, around the horses. And that's best accomplished when the owner learns how to do it and does it.
 
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