German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,099 Posts
Sounds like the saccharine scare from the late 70's. Didn't they use the same type of doses on lab rats and everyone said you'd get cancer from drinking Tab?

Seems like the same thing.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
The Menadione discussion has been going on for YEARS
Menadione - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What is the point of spreading more internet hype. Are there any specific long term studies concerning its use in dog food? It is banned in human food.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
I would not either.

Not until I am convinced it is safe and the fact it was pulled off the market for human foods speaks volumes.

I do not believe it is even "approved" for dog food
The link posted by the OP supports its use.
Below is the code of federal regulations on menadione
The dog food project page has a good bit of discussion on the topic as well.
I am not sure the jury is in either way.

CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I would not either.

Not until I am convinced it is safe and the fact it was pulled off the market for human foods speaks volumes.

I do not believe it is even "approved" for dog food
The link posted by the OP supports its use.
Below is the code of federal regulations on menadione
The dog food project page has a good bit of discussion on the topic as well.
I am not sure the jury is in either way.

CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21
It is in fact the only form of "vitamin k" approved for dog food. K1 and K2 are not. The link above is from a well known Holistic Practioner that has written 9 books on Holistic Pet Care.

The Dog Food Project is run by a very clever German woman with no expertise at all. The site is filled with erros. She also fails to mention that in the one study, the vitamin K3 was injected not eaten at 1,000 times the amount used in pet food. K3 is not considered "highly toxic" by anyone that is familiar with it use over the past 50 years. The anemia brought on is a general anemic condition that any number of injected substances can cause.

Morover, the FDA banned its use in over the counter supplements like you buy at GNC. Why? Because it was being used by body builders and athletes in massive quantities for god-only-knows why.

There is not one documented case of K3 toxicity as it relates to dog food.

I don't know if K3 is absolutely required but it certainly does no harm.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
Where is it specifically approved for dog food by the FDA?
I did a search of the actual FDA.gov site for menadione and came up blank on that.

I don't know if it does or does not do harm or if it is needed. It is needed in swine and poultry because the massive amount of antibiotics they are given (because of the conditions in which they are raised) kill the gut bacteria which manufacture it in these species.

If it is not natural and I don't know about its effects, why would I feed it when I can avoid it?

And if I want to avoid it, why does it matter? You can still go out and buy all the cheap food you want with menadione (and apparently even expensive stuff like Azmira)....

I have not fed my current dogs food with menadione and don't have any clotting disorders which I think I would know about since both have had surgery and some serious lacerations
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,913 Posts
If I won't eat it, then my dog does't either.

Raw or homecooked meals only and I use organic meats, eggs, and veggies.

I know *EXACTLY* what I am putting into my dogs body.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Where is it specifically approved for dog food by the FDA?
I did a search of the actual FDA.gov site for menadione and came up blank on that.

I don't know if it does or does not do harm or if it is needed. It is needed in swine and poultry because the massive amount of antibiotics they are given (because of the conditions in which they are raised) kill the gut bacteria which manufacture it in these species.

If it is not natural and I don't know about its effects, why would I feed it when I can avoid it?

And if I want to avoid it, why does it matter? You can still go out and buy all the cheap food you want with menadione (and apparently even expensive stuff like Azmira)....

I have not fed my current dogs food with menadione and don't have any clotting disorders which I think I would know about since both have had surgery and some serious lacerations

Below:

http://www.thekennelspotlight.com/Menadione.pdf

Why don't websites like The Dog Food Project discuss certain herbs that many foods and supplements use that have been proven toxic?


"Licorice can cause muscle damage and lead to weakness, collapse and even death in dogs"

Licorice root is used in certain foods...and toxicity has been known for hundreds of years.

Why isn't this talked about. If Purina used Licorice it would be front page, but others get a free pass.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
sable123

I never said there was proven linkage. Several other internet articles have not said anything about proven linkage.

YOu have not answered my question

WHY is this foodstuff NOT allowed in human food?
WHERE has the FDA specifically approved its use in Dog food?

Listing of Food Additive Status Part II

Go to M and you can see both the poultry and swine approvals as well as the revokation for human use. It was revoked for human use in March of 1963, well before people were dosing up on GNC vitamins. I don't even know if GNC existed in 1963.

Why, instead of addressing the topic you started, are you now switching over to licorace and herbal supplements?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
295 Posts
I personally wouldn't feed any food containing it to my dogs.
Me either... banned in human food, my dog isn't eating it! No offense to anyone who likes it or feeds it....
I actually emailed and DelMonte who makes Natures Recipe and asked them why they included it in their food if it is not approved for humans... the reply danced all around my question...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,233 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
sable123

I never said there was proven linkage. Several other internet articles have not said anything about proven linkage.

YOu have not answered my question

WHY is this foodstuff NOT allowed in human food?
WHERE has the FDA specifically approved its use in Dog food?

Listing of Food Additive Status Part II

Go to M and you can see both the poultry and swine approvals as well as the revokation for human use. It was revoked for human use in March of 1963, well before people were dosing up on GNC vitamins. I don't even know if GNC existed in 1963.

Why, instead of addressing the topic you started, are you now switching over to licorace and herbal supplements?
I found it on both the AAFCO& FDA website why don't you look harder. You will see that K3 is the only form approved K1 & K2 are not but they do not enforce it.

I do not why K3 is banned in the US for humans, but you should know that all forms of K, 1,2,3, are banned in Canada because of drug interference.

Vitamin K supplementation is not needed at all for healthy adult humans and it is only used by Dr.'s when needed.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
Ok I did some further searching

Looks like AAFCO info is not for free so I could not find anything

More FDA search - other stuff.
CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21

I am certain if it were BANNED in pet food the FDA would enforce its removal, but I do not see any kind of dosing specifications and the levels I have heard of in dog food are much higher than in swine or poultry which does have approved levels. As to AAFCO- I have no access.

If you found it, why not provide a link? I cannot substantiate and I see menadione is not on the CFR GRAS list.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,257 Posts
My sisters dog lived to be 18 years old and he ate all kinds of food that contained not only BHA and BHT but also M K3. If it is toxic then wouldn't he have died before 18 years old? All my dogs as a kid ate Purina foods and it had it back them. They didn't die of toxicity or any organ failure.

I think some dogs like humans are just going to get cancer while others don't.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,483 Posts
I think your LAST sentance pegs it for sure but still believe alls these things (not necessariy menadione but my point is if you don't need it why put it in - it is not natural)

I have seen articles where some old geezer lives to be 114 smoking a pack of cigarettes a day and eating bacon every morning but that does not make it healthy. There will always be outliers.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top