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I have read online that there are breeders who specialize in breeding larger german shepherds that are in the weight range of 100-140 lbs. How can I find a breeder like this?
 

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I agree with Maggie! I think its rediculous what people are making these beautiful dogs turn into. I have a friend who has a GSD that is 135lbs. Even her vet tell her that they shouldn't be that big!
 

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Anything that doesn't fit the breed's standard should be questioned. Shepherds have some health issues as it is, now imagine a dig intentionally bred to be heavier. I am foretelling health issues, especially with those hips and joints.
 

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Anything that doesn't fit the breed's standard should be questioned.
That is interesting. My German Shepherd has a steep croup, stands east west, is cow hocked, and also possesses several other faults, which means that he does not conform perfectly to the breed's standard. I guess he should be questioned, too (even though most people seem to define his breeder as quite "reputable", he comes from SCHH1 KKL1 dam and IPO3 VPG3 sire).
 

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That is interesting. My German Shepherd has a steep croup, stands east west, is cow hocked, and also possesses several other faults, which means that he does not conform perfectly to the breed's standard. I guess he should be questioned, too (even though most people seem to define his breeder as quite "reputable", he comes from SCHH1 KKL1 dam and IPO3 VPG3 sire).
This is why some dogs are meant to be companions. We breed to perfect the breed, not incorporate unwanted faults. Overweight shepherds should not be counted as the standard. Any breeder that advertises and breeds shepherds for attaining abnormal height and weight standards SHOULD be questioned. If someone wants am extra LARGE German shepherd, they should be looking into another breed that falls into that height and weight scale, like a Saint Bernard or Great Pyrenees.

Just because your dog does not fit the standard, does not make him any less of a companion. I was not attacking your dog, but you seem to have made it personal. Every dog should have an appropriate and loving home, flaws and all, but wouldn't it be great if BYB would just stop for once producing dogs that do not fit the bill for passing on their genes, thus reducing or stopping the surplus of unwanted pets because of behavioral and health issues.
 

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German shepherds are supposed to be a medium breed, though, not a large breed.

They're already the poster child for HD, so why try to breed them to be bigger and worsen the problem? :/
Just be wary of 'bigger' GSD breeders.
 

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This is why some dogs are meant to be companions. We breed to perfect the breed, not incorporate unwanted faults. Overweight shepherds should not be counted as the standard. Any breeder that advertises and breeds shepherds for attaining abnormal height and weight standards SHOULD be questioned. If someone wants am extra LARGE German shepherd, they should be looking into another breed that falls into that height and weight scale, like a Saint Bernard or Great Pyrenees.

Just because your dog does not fit the standard, does not make him any less of a companion. I was not attacking your dog, but you seem to have made it personal. Every dog should have an appropriate and loving home, flaws and all, but wouldn't it be great if BYB would just stop for once producing dogs that do not fit the bill for passing on their genes, thus reducing or stopping the surplus of unwanted pets because of behavioral and health issues.
Don't worry, I'm not making it personal :) I have my own beliefs and ideals, and you have yours. That is not a problem with me. But blanket statements such as those without elaboration always spark my curiosity.

My boy's sire does not conform perfectly to standard. He may even be over the standard as far as height, I remember him being a large dog. My boy's dam also does not conform perfectly to standard, she has a steep croup and I do believe she stands slightly east west. My dog got his physical faults from his parents. Neither are the ideal as far as conformation.

Do you believe I got my dog from a "BYB", as you say? Should they not have been bred?

Agree with MRL

If you decide to go this route I would contact this breeder http://www.east-coast-gsd.net/
I second this recommendation. He is also a member of this message board, with a wealth of knowledge regarding breeding, health, and the history of German Shepherds.
 

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Originally Posted by RogueRed26
Anything that doesn't fit the breed's standard should be questioned.

That is interesting. My German Shepherd has a steep croup, stands east west, is cow hocked, and also possesses several other faults, which means that he does not conform perfectly to the breed's standard. I guess he should be questioned, too (even though most people seem to define his breeder as quite "reputable", he comes from SCHH1 KKL1 dam and IPO3 VPG3 sire).
I think what RogueRed meant was that when you see a breeding program that is purposely producing dogs that are outside of the standard - whether that is by size or, for example, by color or conformation - that's something you should take a second look at before you buy from that breeder.

If your dog came from titled parents and just got a genetically flawed deck of cards (so to speak), that's a different matter. Now if you took your dog and said, "He stands east-west and I like this trait, so I am going to see if I can breed a line of dogs that all stand east-west," then that's something that should be questioned. Not the dog itself but the program that is built around the dog(s) and the goals with which they are producing (specific traits - oversized, disqualified colors, for example).
 

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Don't worry, I'm not making it personal :) I have my own beliefs and ideals, and you have yours.
I also respect your opinions as well. This is a forum where we all can teach and learn from each other, and I wouldn't have it any other way. :)


Do you believe I got my dog from a "BYB", as you say? Should they not have been bred?
IMO I believe your dog was produced with the intention of creating an example of the working line GSD, as opposed to an emphasis on conformation, such as the showline GSD. IMO both lines differ structurally. I do not know your breeder, but it sounds as if the parents were probably screened for any genetic illness and possibly titled by the breeders themselves.

My only emphasis is on the fact that any exaggerated fault should not be encouraged to be passed along, such as "soft ears", "Big Boned", "Tall", or "Extra Large/ Heavy" shepherds. I suppose there are always exceptions to the rules, but ONLY if it genuinely betters the breed. That's my opinion anyways.
 

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I think what RogueRed meant was that when you see a breeding program that is purposely producing dogs that are outside of the standard - whether that is by size or, for example, by color or conformation - that's something you should take a second look at before you buy from that breeder.

If your dog came from titled parents and just got a genetically flawed deck of cards (so to speak), that's a different matter. Now if you took your dog and said, "He stands east-west and I like this trait, so I am going to see if I can breed a line of dogs that all stand east-west," then that's something that should be questioned. Not the dog itself but the program that is built around the dog(s) and the goals with which they are producing (specific traits - oversized, disqualified colors, for example).
That's why I asked for elaboration, and then his thoughts on the specific breeder I bought my dog from. I know it goes both ways - I do not care for breeders who breed solely for color or size, either, whereas I value breeders that breed dogs of size or colors that are not exactly to standard.

I followed up with my question because, like I said, it sparked my curiosity and I am genuinely interested in RogueRed's definition of what makes a "BYB" vs. a "reputable" breeder. Otherwise, perhaps I would take it personally! I sought to make discussion and hear more of RogueRed's opinion, because it may benefit me and even the OP as well. At the very least it would satisfy my curiosity! :D

Perhaps my questions came off as condescending or snarky. Was not meant to be the case at all.
 

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I also respect your opinions as well. This is a forum where we all can teach and learn from each other, and I wouldn't have it any other way. :)

IMO I believe your dog was produced with the intention of creating an example of the working line GSD, as opposed to an emphasis on conformation, such as the showline GSD. IMO both lines differ structurally. I do not know your breeder, but it sounds as if the parents were probably screened for any genetic illness and possibly titled by the breeders themselves.

My only emphasis is on the fact that any exaggerated fault should not be encouraged to be passed along, such as "soft ears", "Big Boned", "Tall", or "Extra Large/ Heavy" shepherds. I suppose there are always exceptions to the rules, but ONLY if it genuinely betters the breed. That's my opinion anyways.
Would you say, then, that it is the breeder for size rather than breeding of dogs of larger size that you have a problem with? Do you recommend someone look more into a breeder of larger sized German Shepherds before purchasing, or do you recommend they look elsewhere altogether?

Your comment on my dog being meant to be a companion also interested me. What was it about my description of him that made you automatically conclude that he was meant to be a companion/pet only and not of breeding quality? (You are actually quite right in your assessment! He is pet quality only!)
 

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I realize your last post was not directed at me, but do you mind if I answer anyway?

Would you say, then, that it is the breeder for size rather than breeding of dogs of larger size that you have a problem with?
If I understand correctly, you are trying to differentiate between two breeders: one who breeds specifically to produce larger-sized puppies, where, possibly, size is the main focus of the breeding program; and one who is breeding to produce certain traits in his dogs but is mating dogs who are outside the standard in size and are, therefore, producing larger puppies. In that case, the second breeder's primary goal would not be size, but rather temperament or ability?

A breeder who is breeding for traits - let's say someone who's breeding dogs from long working lines with loads of titles and who's looking to breed puppies for sport homes - may look at his breeding stock, realize that what he has tends to be on the bigger / oversized end, and then chose instead of breeding a large male and a large female to bring in different genetic material from a different dog who may help bring/keep the offspring to a Medium size instead of breeding bigger and bigger.

(God, I hope that makes sense at 1am. LOL)

There are some lines and breeders that produce dogs that are "above" the standard, certainly - but I think most of them will run just an inch or two above the standard, not a whole lot. Certainly nowhere in the 140lbs range, even the heavy-boned types with the big blocky heads.

I think that many/most of the breeders who produce primarily for size want to be much, much over the standard (not just an inch or two) and just produce a much bigger dog. And they will want to go bigger and bigger rather than using maybe a smaller male and keeping closer to the standard.

I've also noticed that a lot of breeders who specifically produce for the big size do so before placing considerations on other aspects of the standard and/or also ignore other aspects of the standard. Many of the sites I've been to talk about breeding for "temperament" but go on to say their dogs are not suitable for Schutzhund, don't have any prey drive, etc. So is that still correct temperament for a GSD? I don't think so.

I also have a hard time reconciling the suggestion that a dog so large and without high energy or prey drive would be suitable for or excel at agility or Search and Rescue. I certainly don't see a lot of the oversize breeders back up their claims of "our dogs excel in ..." with actual proof ... like titles, for example. How does one know their dogs excel in something if it isn't tested under an impartial judge? That's like saying "our dogs have good hips" without ever doing x-rays. How do you know?

I think the difference is between breeding for purpose and ending up with a bigger dog than the standard calls for and breeding for a specific look/trait and not giving a rat's patootie about either the standard or the abilities.
 

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Would you say, then, that it is the breeder for size rather than breeding of dogs of larger size that you have a problem with? Do you recommend someone look more into a breeder of larger sized German Shepherds before purchasing, or do you recommend they look elsewhere altogether?

Your comment on my dog being meant to be a companion also interested me. What was it about my description of him that made you automatically conclude that he was meant to be a companion/pet only and not of breeding quality? (You are actually quite right in your assessment! He is pet quality only!)
I think everyone has the right to search and acquire any dog that fits their standards; I am not one to say no, but I am one to at least advise. I personally do not advocate or recommend purchasing from any breeder who basis their breeding program on certain faults of the breed and exemplifies them to seem deem-able. There is a reason we have standards and if certain dogs do not fit the bill, then, maybe, they should not be added to the gene pool. That's my opinion.

I honestly feel this discussion is in an ellipsis. This will be my last response, primarily cause I feel as if I am just reiterating too much. The point has been put across, and I believe Abbyk9 did a wonderful job of going into vast detail of the question and dissecting it at its root. Its awesome to see the knowledge and experience people have on this forum. Impressed. :thumbup:
 

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I realize your last post was not directed at me, but do you mind if I answer anyway?

If I understand correctly, you are trying to differentiate between two breeders: one who breeds specifically to produce larger-sized puppies, where, possibly, size is the main focus of the breeding program; and one who is breeding to produce certain traits in his dogs but is mating dogs who are outside the standard in size and are, therefore, producing larger puppies. In that case, the second breeder's primary goal would not be size, but rather temperament or ability?

A breeder who is breeding for traits - let's say someone who's breeding dogs from long working lines with loads of titles and who's looking to breed puppies for sport homes - may look at his breeding stock, realize that what he has tends to be on the bigger / oversized end, and then chose instead of breeding a large male and a large female to bring in different genetic material from a different dog who may help bring/keep the offspring to a Medium size instead of breeding bigger and bigger.

(God, I hope that makes sense at 1am. LOL)

There are some lines and breeders that produce dogs that are "above" the standard, certainly - but I think most of them will run just an inch or two above the standard, not a whole lot. Certainly nowhere in the 140lbs range, even the heavy-boned types with the big blocky heads.

I think that many/most of the breeders who produce primarily for size want to be much, much over the standard (not just an inch or two) and just produce a much bigger dog. And they will want to go bigger and bigger rather than using maybe a smaller male and keeping closer to the standard.

I've also noticed that a lot of breeders who specifically produce for the big size do so before placing considerations on other aspects of the standard and/or also ignore other aspects of the standard. Many of the sites I've been to talk about breeding for "temperament" but go on to say their dogs are not suitable for Schutzhund, don't have any prey drive, etc. So is that still correct temperament for a GSD? I don't think so.

I also have a hard time reconciling the suggestion that a dog so large and without high energy or prey drive would be suitable for or excel at agility or Search and Rescue. I certainly don't see a lot of the oversize breeders back up their claims of "our dogs excel in ..." with actual proof ... like titles, for example. How does one know their dogs excel in something if it isn't tested under an impartial judge? That's like saying "our dogs have good hips" without ever doing x-rays. How do you know?

I think the difference is between breeding for purpose and ending up with a bigger dog than the standard calls for and breeding for a specific look/trait and not giving a rat's patootie about either the standard or the abilities.
Chris, would I mind? :wild: I am a long time fan of your blog and all your posts! I love hearing anything and everything you have to say!

Speaking from a personal perspective and what I look for when I purchase a German Shepherd, I can say I agree with your post completely. However, I also do try to look at things objectively, and while I can easily say that I would not purchase from a certain breeder, it does not mean that I will not recommend him/her to others looking for something different from my own ideals. What my initial purpose was, besides to start a discussion and to satisfy my own curiosity, was to avoid drilling into the OP so immediately that large sized German Shepherds are bad and not worthy of being bred, and anyone who does so is a BYB - which, unfortunately, is the tone many of these threads often take.

I do agree that there are certain traits I believe the GSD should possess, and want to see a breeder involved with their dogs in activities and forms of training that will reveal more of the dog's temperament and drives. Although I will say, two of the four or five working line breeders I respect the most on this board do not title all or even most of their current breeding stock, and yet I think them to be a better judge of their dogs (yes, their own dogs!) than another random certified judge. Through their posts and credentials, I have seen and read enough for me to personally find them both credible and trustworthy and would love to purchase a puppy from them, if they would sell one to me - but then again, their knowledge and dedication and experience is also just another form of proof, I suppose! I think my point is, what is proof for one person, one buyer may not necessarily have to be proof enough for the majority.

With these types of threads, it usually boils down to "know what you want", for me. It is always interesting to see people recommending, backing up, or, at the very least, not typing up warnings, when someone posts a link to a breeder with VA1 SCHH3 KKL1 dogs, parading their Gucci or Zamp or Kevin progeny. Or, perhaps a link to a breeder with SCHH3 dogs from sport/working lines, and pictures of their dogs' flashy heeling and videos of a jumping, in the face bark and hold. But those breeders may send their dogs out to Germany for titling and then keep them in kennels without ever knowing their temperament, as long as they go VA, or they may kennel the dogs up for most of their lives with the intention of building drive. So the person looking for a new puppy could end up with a puppy that is a bag of poor nerves even at a young age, or a puppy from a litter that was bred more in accordance to the ideal temperament and drives of a Malinois, a more "successful" dog in the protection sports.

VA ratings and SCHH3 titles do not mean the dogs are good representatives of the breed, either, yet it is the breeders who aim to produce pet quality dogs that are especially targeted. A VA could just mean that the dog is bred in accordance to the current fad in the SV show ring, and a SCHH3 may mean that the dog has Malinois-like qualities that make it an ideal sport dog, but not an overall, well rounded German Shepherd.

If someone wanted a show dog, people would have no problems linking them to a breeder because they see VA and V show ratings, or AKC Chs. If someone wanted a sport dog, people would have no problems linking them to a breeder because they see SCHH titles. But if someone wanted a pet dog and linked to a breeder with dogs with CGCs or dogs that are simply family pets, there is a sudden rush to label them as a BYB. It has even just been said that there are many different types of German Shepherd Dogs, all with different qualities. Do I like that aspect of the breed? No, but it is what it is and I won't shoo people away from one type because of my own preferences, nor will I imply that they are not worthy of consideration.

Me? I'll always get a dog from a breeder who's ideas of and goals for the breed are similar to my own, because they are more likely to breed closer to my ideal, my vision of the total German Shepherd Dog, than a breeder I cannot agree with. But if others buy show dogs from show breeders and sport dogs from sport/working line breeders, I cannot find a problem with people buying pet dogs from pet breeders. All breeders breed their own ideal, because the interpretation of the breed standard, and what can and cannot be made an exception, is so varied.

Anyway, I am rambling... It's only 10:50 p.m. here but I'm not even sure I'm making any sense to myself, much less others! Please feel free to point out any and all flaws in my thinking, would love to hear yours as well. I don't have a very solidly established opinion on this, despite what it may seem, and am always open to discussion.
 

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If someone wanted a show dog, people would have no problems linking them to a breeder because they see VA and V show ratings, or AKC Chs. If someone wanted a sport dog, people would have no problems linking them to a breeder because they see SCHH titles.
I do not think that anyone should recommend a breeder of a particular type of dog solely based on the titles listed on the breeder's website - they should recommend a breeder because they have seen their dogs at shows or working and because others they trust respect and recommend that breeder.

I think any time you have a "single" approach, you'll run into trouble. A "single" approach is when you use one thing to form an opinion - like recommending a breeder based only on the titles you see listed for their dogs. When you know both the titles the dogs have AND have seen the dogs or have someone you trust tell you they've seen the dogs and were impressed, then you have a "double" approach.

Because there are so many people on this forum, if someone posts "what do you think of this breeder", people are able to take several approaches and give a number of different opinions - they can look at pictures and pedigrees. They may be able to see some videos of the dogs working. Or they may have met some of those dogs and have first-hand feedback on them. Some may even own dogs from that kennel. So you get a wide variety of input.

If the OP came on here and said, "I want a German Shepherd and I kinda like them on the larger end of the spectrum, I don't like a really small, fine-boned dog," then people could say, "I know this/that breeder who is breeding for show / work / whatever and tends to produce dogs that are a bit over the standard." (Doesn't, for example, Van Den Heuvel tend to produce slightly bigger dogs with substantial bone?)

But if someone wanted a pet dog and linked to a breeder with dogs with CGCs or dogs that are simply family pets, there is a sudden rush to label them as a BYB.
I don't think it's surprising at all that anyone who's specifically producing pets is labeled as a BYB, and there's a couple of reasons.

The first would be that most litters bred for a specific purpose (such as show or work) will produce "pet quality" pups that will and should go to pet homes. I guess with so many pet pups produced by those breeders, I wonder if there's a need for someone to produce specifically pet lines?

The second is that the majority who produce pet GSDs do not have an interest in producing the temperament of a German Shepherd - they want to produce and sell a dog that looks like a German Shepherd but acts like a Labrador or a Newfoundland. They specifically breed out some of the traits that make a Shepherd and Shepherd - like prey drive (which is what a Shepherd needs to do herding, for example).

And it has been my general impression that those who do breed for pet lines are often very unwilling or uninterested in doing any sort of sport with their dogs. Even obedience or rally seems to be something most of them do not do.

They may get a CGC on their dogs and tout that as a proof of temperament and accomplishment, but I don't think a CGC is truly a measure of that. You can take a dog that does not have the best temperament and train the dog to tolerate what is thrown at it during a CGC test, and pass. You can train the most basic of obedience (sit/down/stay) and pass a CGC. Even the TDI is not too much harder. (For what it's worth, I put both the CGC/TDI on my Mal a month after I got her from the shelter. I've not put any titles on her since because, to me, it is not important to title - I won't be breeding and I'm having a lot of fun doing fun matches and other, different types of things like pulling a travois or doing the Iron Dog.)

I think the people who breed specifically for pets cater to a specific market that is often ignorant about titles and may be impressed by being told that a dog has a CGC / TDI / Herding Instinct Certificate / Rally Novice / Temperament Test / whatever, just like you get people who equate having AKC paperwork and a 6-generation pedigree as proof that your dog is breed-worthy. (I've met plenty of people who tell me the puppies they breed are from "Champion lines". I don't think it really counts if the "champion" is one sire five generations back.)
 

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If your really interested in a King Sheppard, I would suggest contacting the original breeders who started the breed in 1995.
Two American dog breeders Shelly Watts-Cross, and David Turkheimer created this large breed from American and European German Shepherd dogs, Alaskan Malamutes, and Great Pyrenees.
Ask about the history they have had raising them and see if its something you wanna get into. They look beautiful IMHO.
 

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I do not think that anyone should recommend a breeder of a particular type of dog solely based on the titles listed on the breeder's website - they should recommend a breeder because they have seen their dogs at shows or working and because others they trust respect and recommend that breeder.

I think any time you have a "single" approach, you'll run into trouble. A "single" approach is when you use one thing to form an opinion - like recommending a breeder based only on the titles you see listed for their dogs. When you know both the titles the dogs have AND have seen the dogs or have someone you trust tell you they've seen the dogs and were impressed, then you have a "double" approach.
100% agreed.

Because there are so many people on this forum, if someone posts "what do you think of this breeder", people are able to take several approaches and give a number of different opinions - they can look at pictures and pedigrees. They may be able to see some videos of the dogs working. Or they may have met some of those dogs and have first-hand feedback on them. Some may even own dogs from that kennel. So you get a wide variety of input.

If the OP came on here and said, "I want a German Shepherd and I kinda like them on the larger end of the spectrum, I don't like a really small, fine-boned dog," then people could say, "I know this/that breeder who is breeding for show / work / whatever and tends to produce dogs that are a bit over the standard." (Doesn't, for example, Van Den Heuvel tend to produce slightly bigger dogs with substantial bone?)
People could, but unfortunately they do not.

I guess the best way to put it is that I am trying to make up for the fact. Some people will jump to condemn or recommend without ever knowing any more about a group of dogs beyond the titles and what is on the breeder website. I would really rather they just encourage people to understand what they personally want and not take things for granted, nor believe that the forum word is law, as people often do (I know I did at first!).

van den Heuvel does produce dogs of great substance, as is common in the lines they work with. I know Chuck (Shepherds By Design) owns dogs from similar lineage and also of great substance. Love his dogs, especially Ghost :wub:



I don't think it's surprising at all that anyone who's specifically producing pets is labeled as a BYB, and there's a couple of reasons.
I should not have used "surprised", "unfair" would be a better fit. It's not surprising, but I feel that it is a bit unfair.

The first would be that most litters bred for a specific purpose (such as show or work) will produce "pet quality" pups that will and should go to pet homes. I guess with so many pet pups produced by those breeders, I wonder if there's a need for someone to produce specifically pet lines?
But the problem is, is that there is no need to produce specifically show lines, or working lines, or dogs at all.


The second is that the majority who produce pet GSDs do not have an interest in producing the temperament of a German Shepherd - they want to produce and sell a dog that looks like a German Shepherd but acts like a Labrador or a Newfoundland. They specifically breed out some of the traits that make a Shepherd and Shepherd - like prey drive (which is what a Shepherd needs to do herding, for example).

And it has been my general impression that those who do breed for pet lines are often very unwilling or uninterested in doing any sort of sport with their dogs. Even obedience or rally seems to be something most of them do not do.

They may get a CGC on their dogs and tout that as a proof of temperament and accomplishment, but I don't think a CGC is truly a measure of that. You can take a dog that does not have the best temperament and train the dog to tolerate what is thrown at it during a CGC test, and pass. You can train the most basic of obedience (sit/down/stay) and pass a CGC. Even the TDI is not too much harder. Or Rally Novice.
But many show kennels do not give much thought to temperament at all, and many sport kennels breed dogs that look like a German Shepherd but act like a Belgian Malinois, because, just as Labradors are more popular in companion homes, it is the Malinois that has become more popular as a competitive protection sport dog.


I think the people who breed specifically for pets cater to a specific market that is often ignorant about titles and may be impressed by being told that a dog has a CGC / TDI / Herding Instinct Certificate / Rally Novice / Temperament Test / whatever, just like you get people who equate having AKC paperwork and a 6-generation pedigree as proof that your dog is breed-worthy. (I've met plenty of people who tell me the puppies they breed are from "Champion lines". I don't think it really counts if the "champion" is one sire five generations back.)
I do agree, but for me, a dog with a Schutzhund title may possess traits that make a GSD a GSD, but often, to the extreme. Many involved in Schutzhund have bragged of a dog's extreme sharpness and handler aggression is nowhere near a rarity. High, high prey drive, very low thresholds, and high levels of reactivity. A dog in possession of those traits can be titled to a SCHH3, and SCHH3 dogs of those types aren't uncommon. I don't believe that makes a good German Shepherd, either. Which is why I fully agree with your earlier statement - "I think any time you have a "single" approach, you'll run into trouble."

There is a "could" and "should", and there is actuality. People could encourage others to understand the intricacies of breeding and to contact specific members of the forum on both sides of the argument, but in actuality, if someone new comes in looking for a larger sized German Shepherd, many will come in with the comment "breeders who breed for size are BYBs and to be avoided". Of course, that is the nature of message boards, and I understand that. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good discussion, or let my own curiosity get the best of me.
 

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Anything that doesn't fit the breed's standard should be questioned. Shepherds have some health issues as it is, now imagine a dig intentionally bred to be heavier. I am foretelling health issues, especially with those hips and joints.
Tried questioning my dog to no avail. :eek:

Maybe the OP is talking about Shiloh Shepherds ??? :confused:
 
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