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Kyleigh 5 month old future protector - Part 2

7K views 47 replies 28 participants last post by  selzer 
#1 ·
she certainly is beautiful!
 
#3 ·
I believe soccermom's daughter was posting on her account in defense of her mother.
 
#6 ·
I'm curious as well, you mentioned her being from good lines, but I must admit the faded pigment throws me off quite a bit.
 
#8 ·
I am a certified Animal Care Technician, currently employed at a local animal hospital and worked at a humane society for four years. I have seen the results of careless breeding first hand, and watched beautiful dogs die on the table or are euthanized shortly after from genetic conditions that came directly from bad breeding.

I have also seen up to 20 animals A DAY be euthanized at the humane society - so I implore you, PLEASE leave the dog breeding to the professionals. If you want another dog like your beloved girl, ask the breeder for another from the same sire and dam.
 
#9 ·
I am a certified Animal Care Technician, currently employed at a local animal hospital and worked at a humane society for four years. I have seen the results of careless breeding first hand, and watched beautiful dogs die on the table or are euthanized shortly after from genetic conditions that came directly from bad breeding.

I have also seen up to 20 animals A DAY be euthanized at the humane society - so I implore you, PLEASE leave the dog breeding to the professionals. If you want another dog like your beloved girl, ask the breeder for another from the same sire and dam.
Thank you for your post, as sad as it is, but a sad reality.

My brother's friend had to have their 2 year old GSD euthanized because of SEVERE HD. A 2 year old dog???:(
 
#11 ·
Congratulations! You are now the epitome of a BYB.
Loving your dog is not a free pass to breed them.
Come on lady, I'm 17 freakin' years old and I know better than that.
You may love the breed. Heck, I love the breed. But that doesn't mean I want to breed the heck out of my future pup.

Spay your dog.

I really thought this would be a great place to talk to other GSD owners who love their dogs as much as we love ours! But, I was so wrong, everyone has an opinion that's great and now we are being labeled as BYB. And for some people to say we dont love the GSD breed really has no idea how much we do! Maybe some people should take a class on how to talk to people! Have a great day!
 
#13 ·
Not being bullheaded! Will not be a BYB! Maybe the baby momma was not a good intro to oursleves, to the forum. Fine, we will take the blame for that! We havea sense of humor, maybe some people dont! We have received feedback and have posted back, maybe that was wrong too! Some things said have been harsh some not so much. I know everyone here wants to have the best GSD's out there! Like I have stated before everyone has opinions and we do also! But, for some to think we dont care about the breed or love the breed just amazes me! I love looking and the different colors of the breed and seeing all the members dogs! Its great, I do think there are trolls out there who just like to pick and be cruel just like in everyday life! The facts are no one knows us, and for people to judge or label still just makes me wonder what they do for a living! I do take everything that is said to heart, maybe that's just me! Thank you for your opinions!
The only thing that people are judging from is the content from your previous posts. So far you have said absolutley nothing about what your dog is bringing to the breed, what your plans are as a breeder, and what you plan on doing with your bitch to prove that she is going to improve the GSD breed and maintain the standard. If she can't do that, then you are a BYB. And to say that people are degrading your family is crazy. Nobody mentioned a word about your family.
 
#17 ·
After looking at the website I feel my heart grow heavy. From what I see, that is a backyard breeder. This person will indeed breed her dog, likely sell the pups for cheap, and help undo the incredible legacy and hard work of our reputable breeders.

It's a sad day.
 
#19 ·
Im sorry for being bull headed! I did/and I do want help and advise on breeding my girl! If anyone would be willing to advise or help I'm asking please for advise and help, again I'm sorry!
Our advice was given. You didn't like it. The advice is don't breed her, she isn't breed worthy. Breeding for a fault (whites or light pigment) like your breeder is doing really narrows the gene pool and usually is done at the sacrifice of much more important things such as temperament and workability.

If you ignore our advice (as I suspect you will) at least do health checks and demand the same of the stud. Please carefully evaluated your dog's (and the stud's) temperament and if there are any signs of fear or agression PLEASE don't breed them as this is passed on to their offspring and creates a whole new generation of unstable dogs.
 
#20 ·
From the breeder website:

Full Registration: This puppy is purchased with full AKC registration. Within two (2) years from date of purchase, should your puppy develop hip dysplasia or any genetic skeletal disorder, upon receipt of (1) a letter from a duly licensed veterinarian attesting to such condition (copies of x-rays may be required), (2) a copy of the O.F.A. evaluation report, (3) a spay or neuter certificate and (4) the AKC registration certificate on such puppy, you will receive a replacement puppy of equal or greater value from our next available litter. Exclusion: There are NO guarantees on a female puppy once she has been successfully bred. By signing of this contract, you agree that a female puppy will be adult before breeding and that you will only be breed once a year to promote her health and the health and quality of her offspring. By signing of this contract you also attest that you are not a puppy mill or puppy broker and that both females and males will be kept in good health and in a clean environment.
 
#21 ·
Soccermom- glad you are still here.

I think you have some serious misinformation in terms of shelter animals in your area. There is an urgent section of this board - feel free to browse - these are only the GSDs that get posted here, there are lots other GSDs that don't. And lots of GSDs who do not make the adoption floor because they get killed immediately for temperament or health issues or space concerns (not enough room at the shelter).

But that's okay - I would say a high percentage of people have some kinds of bad information - no one wants to think of what the reality is!

Definitely keep asking these questions.

No one will likely advise you to breed your girl. She IS very pretty. What I would ask that you consider - when she gets a little older - is to volunteer for rescue or work at the shelter for six months.

Go to GSD events - dog shows, agility, flyball, Schutzhund, meet as many GSDs as you can. Start reading and studying the breed, the lines. As you go you will see all there is to learn and know.

Take classes with your dog - title her in something, do therapy work - but don't breed her. If you decide after all of that, you still want to breed, you will probably want to start looking for a young female old enough to see as a potential breeding prospect and go from there.
 
#22 ·
I've been corresponding back and forth with soccermom and in all honesty, she is a nice person, caught up in the fight here and feeling defensive.
I must say, she seems very genuine and is willing to learn.

The fact she got her girl from a BYB is probably going to be a shock to her.
I think at this point it's better to educate her and hope she sees that her girl should be a loving pet and nothing more.

I hope she sees that what we are doing here is for the best interest of her girl.
Not everyone knows what a BYB is and more than enough people here probably didn't know either when they got their dog.
Maybe it would be beneficial to explain what to look for in the event she was not bred from the best. Nobody wants to see her end up the victim of bad breeding.
 
#25 ·
I've been corresponding back and forth with soccermom and in all honesty, she is a nice person, caught up in the fight here and feeling defensive.
I must say, she seems very genuine and is willing to learn.

The fact she got her girl from a BYB is probably going to be a shock to her.
I think at this point it's better to educate her and hope she sees that her girl should be a loving pet and nothing more.

I hope she sees that what we are doing here is for the best interest of her girl.
Not everyone knows what a BYB is and more than enough people here probably didn't know either when they got their dog.
Maybe it would be beneficial to explain what to look for in the event she was not bred from the best. Nobody wants to see her end up the victim of bad breeding.
Good for you Linda! I agree, she seems like a perfectly nice person with a perfectly nice dog, who is simply uninformed about BYBs - what they are and how they harm the breed. I hope that you're right that she's willing to learn, and that once educated, she will change her mind about breeding.
 
#23 ·
It's always good to be VERY well informed in any business or personal venture you take in life.
Breeding a dog effects everyone and should be left to professionals. I really don't see how that is confusing?
I really like my car, but in no way should I try to duplicate it in my back yard...I will buy one from the car industry...(since dog breeding was compared to the automobile industry)

I am not trying to be offensive, but having personally PTS many dogs at the humane society, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth when you hear about people breeding their dog.
 
#31 ·
Like the others have said, don't be. She is still your baby girl, will be a loved and cherished member of your family. The only difference is now you know where she came from and know (in your heart) you should not breed her.

So your family and friends won't get a puppy. So what? If they are serious about having a GSD puppy, now you can show them how to get a puppy from a reputable breeder. You've learned a lot here and now know what to look for.

I commend you for sticking around and listening. :)
 
#27 ·
There is no need to be heartbroken. Your love your girl and she's the same dog she was yesterday and last week. I love my dogs dearly and the fact that they may not breedworthy does not change that in the slightest because they are very special to me. :wub:
 
#30 · (Edited)
Red flags from the breeders site....

On the "our dogs" page, it states nothing about any titles or health clearances. No OFA/pennhip. What makes these dogs breedworthy? And if they were breedworthy, why isn't it being advertised?! Casual pet photos, none stacked to be able to judge conformation. Dogs exhibit clear breed standard faults.

States titles/certifications of dogs in the pedigrees... ("Lines includes V, VA1, V12, VA5, VA3, TDI, CGC, TT,SchH1, SchH2, SchH3/FH/HGH/IP3, HGH.") But that means nothing if the actual dogs have done nothing. So again its if the dogs HAVE proven themselves, why isn't it being advertised? On the "pedigree of puppies" page many of the links don't work, and its just linking to pedigrees of related dogs and not the actual parents... Not to mention the page is bizarre and nearly impossible to follow.

On "how to pick a puppy"

Am I welcome to come and visit the puppies at any time?
Not until the puppies have received their first round of shots. Diseases can be transferred from a sick dog rubbing against someones clothing and then transferred from visitors clothing to puppy.
There is no immunity after one round of shots. And it takes time for immunity to build after vaccinations.

How many litters do you have a year?
Depending on how many females. No more than once per year per female. Should not own more than 5 adult dogs total in order to give good socialization and care.
5 dogs? Maybe this breeder could not own more than 5 adults, but many others do and even train, show, and title more than 5 adult dogs.

If breeder claims to give all shots themselves, again it's time to run unless they are a licensed vet.
There is nothing wrong with giving shots themselves, provided they have documentation on proof of vaccination including the labels from the vials of the vaccine.

It seems this breeder wishes to be doing the right thing, but has a long way to go still while seeming incredibly judgmental of other breeders. My purpose in this post is not to "pick apart" the breeder, but explain why myself and many others would NOT consider this breeder to be reputable.
 
#32 ·
Nice looking pup. On the other hand I didnt know this was a communist country where only the assigned are allowed to breed....lol.

My puppy is a purebred... pure enough for me. He has no papers. Hes never going to vote, drive, or leave the country so not having papers is not a problem for me. :)

If people want to breed they as US citizens have that right....same with the dogs :) If a person doesnt like it... they have that choice to move to a country where all the choises are made for them.

Seems like a harsh attack against someone that wants their dog to have puppies.
 
#34 ·
Nice looking pup. On the other hand I didnt know this was a communist country where only the assigned are allowed to breed....lol.

My puppy is a purebred... pure enough for me. He has no papers. Hes never going to vote, drive, or leave the country so not having papers is not a problem for me. :)

If people want to breed they as US citizens have that right....same with the dogs :) If a person doesnt like it... they have that choice to move to a country where all the choises are made for them.

Seems like a harsh attack against someone that wants their dog to have puppies.
:thumbsdown:
 
#37 · (Edited)
(in response to bomber) Its honestly not about attacking the OP, its about educating them. Its just that everyone is so passionate about the dogs and especially the breed that it can get heated.

None of my dogs have or have had papers. None of them have been breedworthy. That didn't make them any less of pets. The pet overpopulation problem is HUGE, as is the problem with the current GSD reputation and irresponsibly bred dogs. Going the extra mile to prove your dog is breedworthy helps ensure that the puppies have the best possible chance for a long and happy life. Its only the responsible thing to do. Would you knowingly breed a dog with a health or temperament defect that is going to pass on to the puppies and probably result in them ending up in shelters and euthanized? If not, why is ignorance an excuse? If so, well than nothing we can say is going to sway you anyway.
 
#40 ·
i have a question about the breeder website for their "guarentees". it says that a full registration pup can be chcked for HD within 2 years of purchase date. and with the required vet documents ofa reports x rays and spay or neuter cert. and akc papers you will recive a pup of equal or greater value from the next litter.

however,

Limited registrated pups are required to test for HD within the 1st year, and if only the HD is so bad the dog needs to be euth. you must provide a vet letter, euthaniasia documents and the akc registration before you recive a "replacement pup" if the pup has mild conditions it wont be replaced.

i guess i dont understand. why does the full registrated dog not need to be killed in order to be replaced. i mean maybe im neive but what would you do with an HD dog. or would they seriously breed it? and if you bought a full registration pup why the certificate of spay or neuter?

also, can they even properyl diagnose HD or anyother joint problems like this at a year?

can someone give me some insight to this because im seriously confused on this contract.

http://www.vondoransgermanshepherds.com/Puppy_Contract.html
 
#48 ·
This is speculation: You pay more for a dog with full registration from this breeder, because you may be a breeder or you may want to show, and hopefully both. So ANY hip dysplasia would be bad, and they are allowing you two years to get at least an OFA Fair. If that does not happen, you do not NEED to return the dog, but provide the x-rays, and the ofa evaluation, and the certificate of speuter, and the akc registration papers, and they will replace the pup -- not sure if that is the exact deal. I do not understand why they want the AKC paperwork back if the dog is speutered they are not using it to make puppies.

A dog without crippling hip dysplasia still makes a good pet.

So for pet people -- who would be paying less money I guess, if the pup has Crippling hip dysplasia, has been ofa'd at a year, has been euthanized, they will give another pup I think.

It is not very good for pet people, not terribly bad for full-registration people.

I am guessing they want to be sure the dog was really bad off, and the people are not just trying to get a second dog for free.
 
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