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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,
I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to specifics as far as bloodlines/ pedigrees go, but I was wondering if someone could give me more info on the kirschental bloodline. If I'm not mistaken, this is a German working line? Looking at a pup from this origin, and want to know more about what I'm getting into
 

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http://www.leerburg.com/fuller.htm
This link is from a conversation Ed Frawley had with Karl Fuller, from the Kirschental Kennels. Onyx has some Kirschental in her background. I thought it was working lines, but was informed it is actually a showline. These dogs are working dogs though, IMO!!
 

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Kirchental Kennels were when Karl was younger known for producing great herding dogs. These dogs were a combination of working and showlines, more on the showlines with working lines to keep the drives where Karl wanted them. Many of the pups today still can herd, it is just that Karl can't any more.
 

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Thanks, especially for the link! Very useful! I see how they are a cross between show/ working lines. I guess I better get ready for that DRIVE!
 

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They look like west German show (and do show), but were intended for herding type work. My Kenya's breeder has several of them. One of them is a 12x HGH (herding) and BSZS herding Siegerin. I hope Karl's legacy will live on through the lines.
 

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Yes....lovely lines
This was one of the major reasons I went with the German show line male that sired my last litter...his dam was down from Kirchental and some nice lines at that.

Cherri
 

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Kirchental Shepherds are one of the best. if you want the same high quality pedigree, show lines and imported take look at vomVollkommen Shepherds. http://www.vomvollkommenshepherds.com or http://www.vomvollkommen.com. great dogs but cheaper. if i'm not mistaken they're pups are 3,000.00 and up. i might be wrong on the price. vomVollKollmen pups, 1,800.00. i have one and couldn't be happier and believe me i looked hard and long before i found them. when you say "looking at a pup from this origin" what do you mean? is one parent from Kirchental and the other parent from some other breeder? i just thought of something if Kirchental has pet quality Sheps i bet there's a thin line between her pet quality and show dogs meaning her pet quality dogs are gorgeous and smart. good luck in your search for a puppy. don't rush, that special puppy and breeder is going to be out there for you. the longer you look the more you learn. keep notes on the different breeders and dogs. when you start looking at dogs on the Kirchental level you're going to see alot of nice dogs/pups. our boy is a show-working dog. he's calm in the house and active outside (we live in a small house). when you go with those top of the line dogs training is going be a breeze. stick with the forum there's lots of info and knowledge here. take care.
 

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Kirschental is right here in where I live! Marion Füller now runs the kennel, I think? The page has a flag in English to click on...
http://www.kirschental.de
C'mon, you guys, come over and visit sometime.
The SV clubhouse is a 15 minute walk from here!
 

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The old Kirschental herding lines would be considered "working" and are found in many modern working line pedigrees. The more modern Kirschental stuff is considered German show lines. Many of the dogs can still herd, but the primary focus of the breeding is more geared toward the show ring.
 

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The Füller are crossing there "Show-lines" with working-lines also.
Saw a litter for sale, from them not to long ago.
 

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How do you do the u with the accents?? Sorry to get off topic
 

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Kirschental is not really easy to categorize even though most people today seem to have a thing for putting everything neatly in boxes.

Herr Karl Fuller was breeding GSDs since way back in the 50s, when there was no such thing as a "show" / "working" split. When the split happened in the 70s under the Martin Brothers, Fuller continued what he had always been doing, that is producing show dogs that could work. That is what his contemporaries did in the 50s and 60s: famous kennels such as Lierberg, Bungalow, Busecker Schloss, Haus Dexel, Wienerau, etc.

He always followed the old German practice of breeding working females (herding) with conformation males. A technique that has been practiced since Horand. If you follow the bloodlines of his females, you can see GSDs from the 40s and 50s that are more commonly found in so called working lines today.

So his dogs often have what people would consider "mixed" show/working bloodlines. Since Herr Fuller has forgotten more about GSD breeding than most "expert" GSD breeders today know, I think he deserves his own special category.
 

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I agree Ocean. The blend in my puppies' sire's ped to me was interesting and with purpose not just VA to VA...it showed a thought process going on and it appeared to be it continued with Brebe Am See doing the same type of breeding....I respect this.

Cherri
 

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Originally Posted By: onyx'girlHow do you do the u with the accents?? Sorry to get off topic
Turn on your Num Lock, then hold Alt and press 129 (on the number pad to the right, or the Num Lock numbers over the letters on the keyboard, not your normal numbers along the top)
 

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Ocean,
Your comments are very accurate and the kirschental kennel is one of the great herding kennels. Karl Fuller has forgot more about GS then most people will ever know. He has always used the same breeding practices, and those other kennels also bred in that fashion.The only difference today (and it is a giant difference), is like you said in the 50's and 60's, the showline dogs had genetic vigor and diversity and thus still retained their working ability. Top show dogs were bi-color, sables, and even blacks. Today that is no longer the case and the vigor, genetic diversity, and working ability has been compromised in the top showlines...ie this formula has been abandoned by the other kennels you have named, except Winereau who was a major contributor to today's showlines being what they are. Love Karl Fuller, and Kirschental, but old breeding practice is no longer as effective with today's showlines...JMO.
 

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We have a Kirschental boy! We were lucky enough to go to the 2006 BSZS and got to meet Marion Fuller and talk with her a bit. We learned so much on that trip.

Patti, look out - we may just do it!!!
 

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LOL Pam, come on down!!
Lots of things to see and do here. PM me if you ever want to come visit!
If you bring your Kirschental boy with you (envy..envy..envy..), Grimm would love to meet him.
Me, too!
 

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