[DSudd]

DH came across an add last night regarding a PD selling a female K-9. First off they want $5,500 for this dog, which is just not going to happen. She was not very old so it made me wonder why they were getting rid of her.

Anyways, they said in their ad that this girl would be good for home protection. I might be wrong, but I thought with the training a K-9 receives that they would need a home where the owners would know not only how to handle the dog, but also the skills to become pack leader. I am not sure if this is explained right but I am really curious about this.

 

[Castlemaid]

It would be interesting to see the ad, and know why they are selling her.

Now, some dogs go through a lot of training and then get washed out of police programs. They may not have what it takes to be a working K9, but are still strong, fearless, highly-trained, and willing to engage a threat when commanded to.

But you are right, such a dog should NOT be going to a "pet" home, where the dog is kept for "yard-protection", but to knowledgeable and experienced dog people who will know how to maintain her training, and will be able to stay in control.

The price is probably average for a trained "protection" dog, if that is indeed what she is. What you often see is un-ethical so-called trainers selling fear barkers at exorbitant prices to unsuspecting average Joes, and that is how the PD may have ended up with her in the first place.

 

[novarobin]

Kaper is a washout from Police training. His protection and obedience were above and beyond, however, he had no interest in tracking. The dogs here do alot of track work and it is a definite requirement. The current trainer was only a handler at the time Kaper was trained, but has said looking back Kaper could have probably had a career in another department or correctional institution, he just wasn't suited for here.
I suppose he could have been sold for protection purposes but wasn't.
DH has spent alot of time with the K9 section doing quarry work, etc, so he knew how to handle him. I agree that the dog should at least go to a home where the people are experienced dog people.

 

[K9mom]

Unfortunately, the municipality has probably deemed her "surplus" and are trying to sell her for their purchase price. I would venture to guess that if someone inquired with a lesser price and time moved on without selling her, they would release her for cheaper.

Also, and please understand, I deal with K-9 Handlers all the time, they are not the smartest at placing their washouts. The main one I deal with here will let them go to just about anyone who asks and for some ungodly reason simply being a cop seems to be good enough for taking on even a retired K-9 whether you have owned a dog in the past or not!!

Tina

 

[DSudd]

Technically I would be considered experienced dog people but I wouuld be very leary to bring a trained K-9 into my home.

 

[Castlemaid]

Originally Posted By: DSuddTechnically I would be considered experienced dog people but I wouuld be very leary to bring a trained K-9 into my home.

My point exactly! Being an experienced dog person, you understand the resposibilities, requirements and nature of a trained working dog, and can make an honest assessments as to your abilities and limitations in having and caring for such a dog.

Many people cannot, but would love to have an "ex police K9" just for the bragging rights.

 

[StGeorgeK9]

There is a guy that trains dogs here for K-9 that I will never use because he sold a GSD that didnt make the grade to a person that didnt know a thing about shepherds let alone a K-9. He bought the dog exclusively for bragging rights and he thinks it is funny for people to be afraid of this dog. The dog cannot be around children, has bit his young son and still has not been neutered and he thinks this is a police dog???.........He actually wants to BREED this poor dog. the guy had the gall to ask me if I would breed my female with him........NOT. Anyway, I lost all respect for this trainer because of this decision to sell this dog to this idiot and will never set foot on his property again. I cannot believe a responsible trainer or breeder would allow a dog to go to a home that was not prepared to deal with all of its issues and certainly never to one that wanted one for "bragging" rights!!!

 

[GunnerJones]

Originally Posted By: DSuddTechnically I would be considered experienced dog people but I wouuld be very leary to bring a trained K-9 into my home.

My home no, Kennel, yes until I can figure out what's in the dog's head. then I'd have to figure out how to De-Mil him a bit

 

[novarobin]

Originally Posted By: K9MomUnfortunately, the municipality has probably deemed her "surplus" and are trying to sell her for their purchase price.

Unfortunately that is usually how it is. The people making money decisions have no idea about dogs and only want to get all/some of their money back.

DH knew Kaper since he began training. He also had a good knowledge of working dogs in general. Kaper has not been without his challenges but I think it is a good situation. I shutter to think of him somewhere else. DH did pay for him too but not sure how much.

 

[mikaK9]

I'm guessing the department that placed the ad hasn't been sued "yet." I would say it's not far down the road, just based on the info noted above that was in the ad.

And as far as reasons for releasing a police dog from training go.....I wouldn't necessarily count on what you hear either. Although it's possible to have a dog wash out due to issues outside of bitework/protection, it's rare if you have a good trainer (unless the dog is in a "red zone" 24/7, in which case it would always be a danger and shouldn't really go anywhere). And I've yet to see a dog that has the drive necessary to do bitework/protection, and which a good trainer cannot develop into a successful dog in all other areas as well. As far as I've seen, a lack of courage in bitework/protection is the more likely reason that most police dogs will wash out. But it's hard to ask for as much money if you give that as a reason for selling the dog.

 

[DFrost]

A couple of things I've learned about buying dogs to be trained for police work.

1. Test them yourself. Don't take anyones word for how good a dog is.

2. Have them X-rayed by your own vet.

3. Vendors of police type dogs should be viewed as used car dealers.

DFrost

 

[pupresq]

All good points!

Quote: I've yet to see a dog that has the drive necessary to do bitework/protection, and which a good trainer cannot develop into a successful dog in all other areas as well.

And if bitework/protection is the weak link, the dogs I've seen end up still in LE but doing narcotics or something else.

 

[novarobin]

Originally Posted By: mikaK9Although it's possible to have a dog wash out due to issues outside of bitework/protection, it's rare if you have a good trainer.And I've yet to see a dog that has the drive necessary to do bitework/protection, and which a good trainer cannot develop into a successful dog in all other areas as well.

In Kaper's case he was in the first group of K9s trained for a department that never had dogs before. The trainer was from outside. The handler was brand new (and had issues with his other dog). My understanding is he lost interest in tracks and had a problem with stopping to check out other dog's urine. He was neutered in effort to correct that (I don't know if that is a common practice or not). It did not work and he couldn't be sent back. That trainer is no longer involved in the K9 training here.

 

[DSudd]

Lots of great information here. I am not thinking of buying this dog, for starters if I am going to spend over $5000 for something it would not be a dog. There are to many rescues that need homes.

I was just wondering if "anyone" could correctly handle a trained K-9.

 

[DFrost]

Almost "anyone" can, with proper training. I agree there are many rescues that will make great pets. Obtaining a PSD potential dog from a rescue is very rare. Five thousand dollars is about the going rate for a potential PSD, dual purpose candidate dog. Most vendors provide a guarentee with their dog on both health and trainability. Usually a minimum of one-year. I've just purchased 6 of them (I say I, but of course it was the department that bought them), each one I personally tested and had my own x rays done.

In this instance, 5,000 would be entirely too much money for a dog that is already shown it doesn't have what it takes to be a complete PSD. I suspect there are more issues than the dog not being a tracker.

DFrost

 

[mikaK9]

Quote: And if bitework/protection is the weak link, the dogs I've seen end up still in LE but doing narcotics or something else.

That would be the ideal situation. Unfortunately, if a department doesn't need a detection dog, they might not invest the time it would take to seek out an agency that would want the dog for detection work.

And novarobin, in regards to Kaper, that's kinda what I was thinking from your posts. It sounds like the person who did the training at the time probably just lacked experience. There are a number of police dogs that go through the same feral issues in tracking to some extent....it just takes knowing how to work the dog in the right drive for tracking and having more experience with those issues. A dog that does well and has the right drive for bitework should be able to do just fine in tracking.....with an experienced trainer.

 

[oregongsdr111]

Our rescue has been offered retired canine dogs, but we do not accept them. They are to much responsibility, and liability for us.

Our State had a jerk that obtained one, in a county close to us. The guy got drunk, and set the dog off to attack a person.
It was very bad. The got arrested, and charged with a felony, and the dog ended up PTS at a Shelter.

I think they should only go to homes where the adopter has met mandatory training requirments.

 

[dOg]

I heard of one community which imported for over $5K, and then ended up with a dysplastic nervbag only to find they have no recourse because the breeder doesn't have to honor a guarantee once out of the country,
and the rest of the force is unnerved by the prospect of being bitten.

Not saying this has happened here, but this story reminded me of that one, and made me wonder why any municipality would import, when there are som many good dogs right here, and they don't have to break the bank to obtain them!

Sooner or later, taxpayers should demand fiscal responsibility of local governments, who do they think they are, feds?
Happy Tax Season!

 

[mikaK9]

DFrost can correct me if I'm wrong (as I don't have experience in other areas of the country), but most agencies I know of that have experience in purchasing dogs would not purchase directly from an out-of-country breeder. The agencies I know of go through what are basically brokers (that have their own kennels) in the US. The broker imports the dogs and then fits them to the correct agencies. If the dog doesn't work out, it is guaranteed by that reputable broker and replaced by a more suitable dog. It's too bad the agency you mentioned didn't seek out others with more experience in this area first.

And I think one problem with getting dogs that are not imported is that there just aren't too many kennels breeding yet in the US that are willing to keep and develop the dog until it is 1 -2 yrs old. Most want to sell the dogs as puppies. The ones that keep the dogs til they are older usually are able to sell to police agencies....but there are many more police dogs needed.

 

[DFrost]

What you say, in my experience, seems to be the case. The departments that I know of, that buy imports, buy from a vendor. It gives the department trainer an opportunity to evaluate the dog themselves and deal with someone that is in the vicinity. Most vendors also give a guarentee relative health and trainability. Even so, vendors are like used car dealers and must be treated with a buyer beware attitude.

DFrost