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After he awarded another judges girl BB and then BPIG, when she was the only puppy who was spooky and moved like ****, I went to ask him his opinion on Gemma, my 14 month old I have put pics here of.

WEll sit down, he said she should be spayed, will never finish, that she isn't at all what the breed should look like. He said she looked like a shepherd from 20 or 30 years ago, that she would have won easily back then. He said she obviously had great temperment, knew I wouldn't have her if she didn't. Said she could probably do what the breed was bred to do,that she was probably what the breed originator(his words) expected but that they don't want them able to do that any more. They are supposed to be long, and pretty, not functional, like BB dog( he said that)

He said the GS was the most genetically engineered of all breeds, I said I would have thought pugs or bulldogs and he said no GS's are and they used to look like Malinois and then were changed to look like today's BB and be totally non functional, they can no longer do what they were bred for.

Then he said if I watched what was winning I would see that only ones like BB's are doing any winning, so I asked about the day's special, Gemma's litter mate, and he said he has a terrible front moving like a puppy. So I said well he is a 14 month old puppy and has lots of Group placings and wins.

I can't believe a judge thought they should be unable to do what they were bred to do, I even said Gemma does herd, and is everything they should be, but no long legs, collie head, super long body, etc. How sad and kinda disillusionment for me, I had head other people's stories and thought well Can must be different, but this was a Can show and Can judge. Gemma has 7 points.

How sad for the breed that there are people who think this way. And that one judge showed his spooky Shepherd and they both thought that was OK. I will happily take my old fashioned pretty, functional girl over the other kind
 

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Forgive my ignorance, but what's BB and BPIG?

I don't know if that was an AKC judge, but all they care about is looks and nothing more. They don't care about health or functionality or anything like that. Pretty much, if the dog is pretty, it can be bred - which I find very sad.

Also, you said it was another judge's dog he awarded. If it was one he knew very well and was a friend of, that's probably why.
 

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BB best of breed, BPIG best puppy in group, and yeah teh owner of said dog is a judge who lives about 10 min from the judge doing the judging who told me this after the day's judging was over. It is a CKC judge as we are in Canada. Gemma has 7 of total 10 points she needs and is only 14 months so there are some good judges who see her worth and her brother is number 11 Gs in the country at 14 months so not a bad one and like her can do what they are bred for and move correctly not legs everywhere and spooky temperment.

I just couldn't believe these comments
 

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WEll sit down, he said she should be spayed, will never finish, that she isn't at all what the breed should look like. He said she looked like a shepherd from 20 or 30 years ago, that she would have won easily back then. He said she obviously had great temperment, knew I wouldn't have her if she didn't. Said she could probably do what the breed was bred to do,that she was probably what the breed originator(his words) expected but that they don't want them able to do that any more. They are supposed to be long, and pretty, not functional, like BB dog( he said that)
Unfortunately, I suspect that is the impression many judges get after attending GSD judges education. This judge almost sounds as though he was being sarcastic.
 

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Just looked at pics of Gemma, and I'm no expert, but she's gorgeous, especially for being so young.
 

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welcome to the world of conformation:(( Obviously if she has 7 points, she is impressing other judges, I would chalk this one up to "never show under again"..

Don't let it get you down, it happens all the time
 

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People say things Its what you think that matters And if you and your dog enjoy showing then keep doing it-
 

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I echo Holland's comments, it's just one person's opinion, and keep showing if you enjoy it. Your dogs, both Ty and Gemma, are very good looking and since they have great temperaments, I would continue to show. Have you ever had them evaluated by an SV judge? You might get a totally different assessment. I realize you are going for points in the CKC but an SV show may be worth pursuing since they do take into account their confidence, temperment, and structure as well as how they look. Might be a confidence booster for you, just my 2 cents...
 

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I don't know much about the AKC Conformation venues..(I've only participated a few times).....but there is the same BS (perhaps more) in the German Style Conformation venues as well.
It gets more disappointing & soul breaking with each passing show, to watch the politics and favoritism that is handed to the wealthy or to those deemed "powerful".
My only advice is....*Get mentally stronger, breed & exhibit good dogs, continue portraying true sportsmanship & maintain your reputation*.....and NEVER let them see you cry! (that's what my husband tells me).
Judges are supposed to *evaluate* each dog (independently) against the breed standard and from the leash downward. Too often than not....they simply look at the leash upward, barely noticing the dog.
I refer to judges as *The Immortals*....because this is how many perceive themselves.
Thanks for letting me vent also....
Best wishes to you and your dog!
 

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forget about that Judges comment. he was friends with the
other Judge. your dog has points. the Judge might not
have liked your dog but that's his opinon. your
points says a lot.
 

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We had similar experience when our ARA was a puppy. I’m not really much into confirmation showing but, at the time, it seemed like a fun thing to try since there was a Sieger show 130 miles from us. ARA was entered in the 12 to 18 month class. She actually did quite well considering that neither of us had ever been in a show ring. I later had a chance to talk to the judge and she was quite complimentary. Keep in mind that our dogs are German bred and this was a Sieger show.
The following week, much against the advice of our fellow “German” breeders, we entered ARA in to an all breed, AKC show. It was a disaster!!! The judge told me, point blank, that there was NOTHING about her that he liked. She totally lacked the sleek, streamlined, look of today’s GSDs. I asked him how he expected that sleek, streamlined, steeply angulated GSD to spend an entire day working in the field herding cattle or sheep. His answer was reflective of how much some of these judges know about the breed. “They are not intended for that purpose”. Oh boy so much for knowledgeable judges!!
:)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanks for the kind words, nothing anyone says can change my opinion of my dogs, I love them. I don't breed, nor plan to, and only show so teh breeder gets the acknowledgment and then we do our fun stuff. I just couldn't believe a judge would think tehy are not supposed to be a functional breed, just to be pretty?? And to prefer the bad tempered one?? Anyway I just had to complain, I may try an SV if one is around and eventually Gemma will finish as will Ty, who has points from the few times he has been out but he hates it so time will see if we do more there. I think since no thought is involved he is bored, and looks it where Gemma being younger hasn't gotten teh bored look down pat yet
 

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I don't even bother asking for comments or even listening to the critiques anymore (at the SV type shows the critique is given outloud). When my boy was 7 months one judge said he had a weak head and then the next week a different judge said he had a substantial head. We just do it for fun, for socialization, and to prove with the ratings and show cards that at the very least the dog has no faults.

I like my dog the way he is, otherwise I would have gotten a different dog. :) It's very easy to predict how he will place and what the judge will say, depending on the venue and what I know the judge prefers.

The comments about the dogs not working and looking pretty don't even surprise me. After all, at least in the USA the AKC basically scorned Schutzhund, which is the breed test!
 

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.....................
The comments about the dogs not working and looking pretty don't even surprise me. After all, at least in the USA the AKC basically scorned Schutzhund, which is the breed test!
I thought that the Sch title was a working test - doesn't include any comparison to the GSD breed standard, does it? I.E. could an oversize GSD, say 27-28" pass the Sch test and thus be ok to breed?
 

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After he awarded another judges girl BB and then BPIG, when she was the only puppy who was spooky and moved like ****, I went to ask him his opinion on Gemma, my 14 month old I have put pics here of.

WEll sit down, he said she should be spayed, will never finish, that she isn't at all what the breed should look like. He said she looked like a shepherd from 20 or 30 years ago, that she would have won easily back then. He said she obviously had great temperment, knew I wouldn't have her if she didn't. Said she could probably do what the breed was bred to do,that she was probably what the breed originator(his words) expected but that they don't want them able to do that any more. They are supposed to be long, and pretty, not functional, like BB dog( he said that)

He said the GS was the most genetically engineered of all breeds, I said I would have thought pugs or bulldogs and he said no GS's are and they used to look like Malinois and then were changed to look like today's BB and be totally non functional, they can no longer do what they were bred for.

Then he said if I watched what was winning I would see that only ones like BB's are doing any winning, so I asked about the day's special, Gemma's litter mate, and he said he has a terrible front moving like a puppy. So I said well he is a 14 month old puppy and has lots of Group placings and wins.

I can't believe a judge thought they should be unable to do what they were bred to do, I even said Gemma does herd, and is everything they should be, but no long legs, collie head, super long body, etc. How sad and kinda disillusionment for me, I had head other people's stories and thought well Can must be different, but this was a Can show and Can judge. Gemma has 7 points.

How sad for the breed that there are people who think this way. And that one judge showed his spooky Shepherd and they both thought that was OK. I will happily take my old fashioned pretty, functional girl over the other kind
Remember that any judge is giving only their opinion on that particular day based on the dogs that they see in front of them.
Was the show a GSD speciality or an all breed? Unfortunately that can often make a huge difference in who wins or places.

Our US showline male has been cited as a better allbreed show dog than a speciality dog.
 

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I thought that the Sch title was a working test - doesn't include any comparison to the GSD breed standard, does it? I.E. could an oversize GSD, say 27-28" pass the Sch test and thus be ok to breed?
Under the SV a dog must have a SchH or HGH title and be within the correct size range to be eligible for breeding. The AKC is just an all-breed registry that hosts shows and events. IMO the SV is THE breed club for German Shepherd dogs.
 

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I am not surprised. The divergence between show and working lines could not be possible unless the judges were as completely clueless as they are. At least this one knew he was making Max roll over in his grave and admitted it. It is sad, and very stupid, but it is. This is why working line dogs are not often shown, it's an exercise in futility. Nobody can bear to see hock walking cripples, which is why you seldom see GSDs anymore in the really big shows, and still the judges have no clue what they've done and continue to do the breed. What's equally disappointing to me is that the showlines the SV crowns too are a far cry from any picture in Max's book, and are so roached they look like tricycles. Everything he warned against has happened, in spades!
 

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The conformation bar is so low that to participate is to encourage this judgement of ignorance. And what's more disgusting is supposedly reputable breeders see no problem with JUDGES who spew this ignorance. Until the people who participate in these endeavors rise up and protest these actions and opinions from JUDGES, then this charade will continue. This thinking is beyond sad, but there has to be an audience for this to thrive, Shame Shame , Shame!!
 
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