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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Long story short- dog was bought at 8 weeks as a family dog to a home with two known small children. One of which was a newborn. was a neurotic unstable mess that by age 2 chewed its own toes off (At night when owner was sleeping) and chewed a hole in its own hip despite multiple outlets of mental and physical stimulation during the day, skin scrapings from vet and humidifiers/flea treatment/food changes exc. Needed to be medicated just so the wounds would eventually heal. Toes needed to be amputated due to self-destruction and dog managed to rip stitches out (At night) despite multiple sedatives, bandages and collars to the point the vet refused to spay the dog out of fear it would gut itself at night. Dog was seen by two vets, medicated due to dog struggling to keep weight due to constant pacing and panting, was also seen by one behaviorist and a trainer who helped train and guide the dog-savvy owner to try and work with the dog due to young age. Dog puzzles, food toys, long walks, tried mill for rainy days, 3 acres to run daily and multiple stimulating food hunt games were played throughout the day. The Dog was loose with owner except at night as the dog continued to pace at night.
Dog needed to be kept under tough physical control 24/7 by owner who worked from home, and they succeeded in doing so. The dog responded to them and their commands. Was 50-50 with people and only responded well to the wife when they allowed strangers into their home and on occasion would become reactive regardless, resulting in the animal needing to be put away. Training wise- the dog healed (the command) well, was responding to wordless commands, long downs, sit-stay though struggled with off-leash training. By age 3 dog broke out of a metal crate while owners took a trip to the beach for the first time since purchasing the dog and it attacked, killed and ate the family's 13 pound 6-year-old dog who it had never shown signs of aggression towards in the past.
Breeder claims this is normal behavior and that their lines temperament can't be guaranteed after two years old because of "wolf-like" qualities that are commonly found in the GSD breed- despite originally selling the 8-week old dog as a loving intelligent family pet to a home with two young small children.
That's the short version. Understandably no one can truly comment on this dog without working with it themselves. I get that, but is what the breeder said true? Is this really what Shepherds are like now? All the ones I've been working with don't seem like this which is why I wanted to reach out and get opinions on the information I can provide.
I can probably get questions answered by the owners as well.
 

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The Nerd Herder
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No. Not normal at all and so many red flags to terrible genetics.

Aside from self destructive, neurotic behavior, how is a herding dog not going to be able to function off leash, in conjunction with a handler. How is it a healthy dog can't sleep.

Nothing about this is ok.
 

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Fern GSD 5yrs, Chloe the Cat
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Forget if this is healthy for a GSD, this isn't normal for a dog at all. What do they mean by "wolf like" behavior? There shouldn't be "wolf like" behavior (whatever that means) in a domesticated dog. Even landrace breeds don't exhibit things like that.
 

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Is this dog still alive?
 

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I would prefer the long story. This story starts with “unstable neurotic mess” and the OP obviously strongly dislikes the dog. The breeder placed a 8 wk old puppy in a home with young kids and newborn and another dog, it obviously was a very bad mismatch and things went very wrong. Can you share the dog”s pedigree and the lines? Without it it’s hard to say anything except that right now it’s a sad and not normal situation for the dog and the family.
 

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Yeah, I've seen a lot of dogs with a HUGE variety of drives and thresholds and even weak nerves, but this sounds like an extreme case were the dog is not the only part at fault!

Absolutely extreme, not "normal" using any definition of the term. Poor dog!
 

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Eska von den Roten Vorbergen
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Would also be interested in knowing the pedigree. The only dog I've know that was remotely like this was a working line female that was dog aggressive to other females, and after having a litter of pups, would constantly pace. If put in a small indoor kennel, she would STILL pace/twirl around. If put in a large fenced outdoor grass area, she would constantly run the fenceline. She was eating enough food for three dogs, and it was still impossible to keep weight on her.

NOT normal behaviour at all!
 

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I could not have made up this mess. I have seen dogs in a much worse environments who were complete lovely and normal. Most were Pits, chained, neglected etc. If everything is real about this dog, he wouldn't live if he was mine.
 

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Pits are not a herding breed and it’s hard to compare We don’t know the environment. Dog savvy ppl would not go to behaviorists for help and would buy an escape proof crate. I don’t see any outlets described. Why do dogs always suddenly around 2 years old become a horrible mess?

What was the nature of the owners tough physical control 24/7? Was the dog physically punished? Shocked by ecollar? Kept in crate? Starved and the food was only used for”hunting games”? Calling a GSD, possibly a high drive civil dog, “reactive” when a stranger shows up also shows lack of understanding of the breed. How was she trained? Did she have a side effect from meds? So many unknowns.
A working dog that is expected to be a docile pet will turn into neurotic mess real quick. I give the dog a benefit of the doubt just because the OP post was so one sided. Poor dog.
 

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What the...
Heck, yes, we can comment without working the dog ourselves!
That’s a neurologically abnormal dog and should have been put out of its misery the first time it self-harmed.
Shame on that horrible breeder. Spreading all-out BS about the breed.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why anyone would keep such a dog in their home, especially when they have very small children. There are so many good dogs out there, I honestly don’t understand…
 

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Maybe because the OP doesn’t really know what the dog is like and what was happening in that home? I’m not even sure the dog in question exists… Such a weird first post and weird question that has an obvious answer…. “Is killing and eating little dogs bad? Is it the new normal? No? Really? I had no idea!”
 

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Eska von den Roten Vorbergen
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I don’t see any outlets described. Why do dogs always suddenly around 2 years old become a horrible mess?
GSD07, if you read the whole post, especially the first paragraph, the dog had multiple outlets provided. Owner worked from home and dog was only crated at night.

Dog puzzles, food toys, long walks, tread mill for rainy days, 3 acres to run daily and multiple stimulating food hunt games were played throughout the day. The Dog was loose with owner except at night as the dog continued to pace at night.
The dog I had experience with didn't have as much stimulation as this one, but she was being trained for schutzhund, and was kept in a kennel with access to an outdoor run when not being worked. Because of the dog aggression, she couldn't be in the house with the other dogs.

No dog that's right in the head chews its own toes off or mutilates its body.
 

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Pain will do it to animal and a human. Abuse. Mental illness. It he original post didn’t ask for help with finding a solution. It described a tragic situation, a suffering animal and suffering family. I do not kick animals and humans who are already down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Maybe because the OP doesn’t really know what the dog is like and what was happening in that home? I’m not even sure the dog in question exists… Such a weird first post and weird question that has an obvious answer…. “Is killing and eating little dogs bad? Is it the new normal? No? Really? I had no idea!”
I'll give it to you its a weird first post.
But its a weird situation to live next to. I worked with the dog and visited frequently as well as know the family. They saught a behaviorist due to the body mutilation. The worst part is, they assumed it was their fault the whole time and did not blame the dog. I'll contact the owner and ask if they want to give the long story. They are very honest and forthcoming so would reply truthfully. And yes, I am biased. I came home the day it happened to hear what sounded like someone dying next-door. It was the wife, sobbing uncontrollably in the driveway. I helped clean it up while the husband took care of the wife and kids. Without getting into it to much, I'm a vet tech retired canine handler because I can't handle furbaby owners anymore, and had a trainer friend say that this is just what shepherds are now. So I reached out here, I truly wanted to know if this is just what the breed has become or not. I'll reply when the owner does with the long story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Is this dog still alive?
It was returned to the breeder who stated they'd "fix it" and rehome it.
The wife is the dog savy one not the husband. She's not ok, hasn't been for months. I don't want to get into it because its not my place but I know therapy is involved. He's been making the choices and he chose to follow the contract. Mistake if you ask me...
 

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I would have expected that you and your trainer friend are more educated than thinking "that this is what the GSD has become". The posts are still weird to me and I'll leave it at that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I would have expected that you and your trainer friend are more educated than thinking "that this is what the GSD has become". The posts are still weird to me and I'll leave it at that.
Fiar. I'm just glad to see the responses are mostly unanimous.
 

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Eska von den Roten Vorbergen
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Munchie, any idea what the dog's bloodlines are? You can PM me if you don't want to post publicly. (We aren't allowed to say bad things about breeders on this board, due to possible liability.)

I am really curious to know what sort of bloodlines would produce a nightmare like this dog!
 
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