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From the look of the abdomen, I say blanket B&T.
We were just discussing this today at the club I was at. Sable will be darker in the underbelly, no breaking in the color pattern.
 

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whats leading you to believe he could be sable? or are you asking/clarifying for someone else?

i'd say hands down that he's a b/t blanket back... even 'patterned sable' would be too much of a stretch for me.

this is as close to a 'saddle' on a sable that i've seen: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/12476.html
 

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This is why we were discussing it at the club:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/434588.html
From afar I said Tobi could pass as a B & T til you ran your hands thru his coat against the grain.
He is a beautiful red sable (which I knew), and there was discussion after that about pattern,etc. Which then went into bi-color as well...
 

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Don't get confused between individual sable hair and a sable colored dog. Any color of GSD can have individual sable hair strands, for example, the bitch stripe on B & Ts.
Also, sable colored dogs can sometimes have a saddle pattern or a blanket pattern.
I've always wondered if the pedigree of Timo Berrekasten was accurate since he does not show any sable dogs in 7 generations or more.
Is it possible for sable to suddenly pop up after many many generations of B & Ts?
Or did a sable working line dog jump the fence while momma was in season?
 

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Originally Posted By: onyx'girlSable will be darker in the underbelly, no breaking in the color pattern.
I have never heard this before. Can you explain what you mean? I think maybe I don't understand the termanology. Bison is a sable and his belly is the lightest part of his body. You can kinda see from the color of the inside of his right knee.

As mentioned, he is a different color at the base of the fur. (if you pet him backward you can seek it)

Bison on the right.
 

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Timo was stunning! But, yeah, how'd that happen...
 

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The belly can still be lighter, but you'll see the banding in the guardhair thruout, not a solid type light hair. I tend to look at the neck coloring too. Sables usually have that lighter collar area but not always & striping down the center of the neck.
 

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Yes, the belly hair is still two-toned, just very light. He has a very distinctive color line. Thanks for explaining. I am still learning all the termanology.

OP, sorry for the interruption.
 

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I am no expert but would def say blanket....even though that gets confusing as there is some "bicolors" that I am sure some would say were more blanket...so in a strech the dog posted could be a full saddle......I would say blanket...but then again dogs that look bi are way darker than this dog and could be called blanket.. but that is more of a "pattern" issue than a sable vs non sable thing???

Just semantics...this site does a pretty good job of breaking things down?? http://www.4gsd.net/colours.html

But I would say a sable is a sable based on "banding" like said above and in the article. If the hairs are banded = sable.... very distinct with a dark tip and a lighter band of coloring on the same hair (ranging from white to deep red) on the same hair as the dark tip.

A sable is a sable! Hard to say from a pic, and I would never have known except for when you have a sable you know a sable! lol.

Like your girl, she is a saddle patterned sable right? (Kenya)
 

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Originally Posted By: Camerafodderwhats leading you to believe he could be sable? or are you asking/clarifying for someone else?
Just trying to learn how the genetics work. Since the mother is a sable, he could be a sable, no? I'm just wondering how you tell since some of the really true "black sables" look almost bi-color to me. Does a dog have to have a "salt and pepper" saddle in order to be sable?
 

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Originally Posted By: kelso
Like your girl, she is a saddle patterned sable right? (Kenya)
Yes, I think she is patterned sable. She has a saddle (which is salt and pepperish when you brush it backwards) and is very light (no tar heels or toe-pencils). Her belly is cream/white just like the dog pictured. But both Kenya's parents are sable.
 

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I think the dog is b/t (blanket or saddle would not make a difference because he would still genetically be b/t).
 

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I would say B/T also.

Sure you can have sable dogs that look very close to saddles. We train with someone that had a patterned sable and a B/T and from any kind of distance it was very difficult to tell them apart. But when you got close enough and really looked you could see where the hair wasn't perfectly in line there would be obvious color underneath. It was just that the black tips on those hairs were much longer. Each of those hairs was still banded, but with much less tan. Of course it's harder to tell in pictures where there isn't that much detail.

Personally I think it also has to do with the season. During certain times the sable dog can appear lighter or darker depending on where their coat is.

All of my dogs have a light belly, and they are all sable. And most really dark sables have a lightness around the eyes that you don't usually see in Bi-Colors. I also agree the easiest way to tell is puppy pictures.
 

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Diabla's father is a sable too, and she is not. Sable is dominant over B/T wich means that the sable parents need to be heterozygous to sable and b/t and the other parent needs to be b/t too
 

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looks black and tan to me. For a bi-color, there is usually penciling on the toes. Sables I do not have any experience with. I think they change a lot more than black and tans. Also, they have similarity around the eyes that black and tans do not seem to have. Cannot explain it, but this dog looks black and tan to me.
 
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