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Curious, hoping experienced people can shed some light.

Are white GSDs considered non GSD because they are bred wrong or something?

My showerthought today was, if the idea is to discourage breeding for pure color and risk increasing some negative traits, why is it then deemed okay to breed for any other non health/temperament enhancements like for hips to be a bit lower, or *other* types of coloring that are more suitable, or sleeker fur?
 

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Simply because dark colors are the breed standard.Many other deviations from the breed standard are technically not ok either.But as in all breeds,dogs that receive accolades in the show ring and working sports despite the deviations are the ones whose progeny is coveted.There are several long debates on this site on the subject.
 

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Purebred dogs are defined by their unique traits and characteristics. When you breed for a certain temperament, structure, coat length etc. you're breeding for specifics traits in a breed. The idea is to not give preference to ONE trait at the risk of losing others. It's a balancing act. The person who puts too much emphasis on ANY trait while ignoring others is not a good breeder.

People are pretty good about acknowledging there are good and bad breeders producing dogs with standard colors but often lump all breeders producing whites into the same category. (bad breeders) The assumption is if you produce whites, you're ignoring all other traits. It's a ridiculous long held mindset based on prejudice and ignorance.

Here's a link to some historical letters/articles that were written during the time the GSDCA was petitioning to have the white coated GSD disqualified from the show ring. (pro and con)
Page Title
 

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I thought it was a flaw (per the breed standard) because the white would blend in with the sheep.
My grand parents and great grandparents used to breed GSD and the white always sold for wayyyy more to sheep farmers for that very reason, they wanted to dog to blend.
 

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It was thought (incorrectly, as it turns out) that white dogs were albinos. Of course, by the time it was firmly established that there were not, the disqualification was firmly entrenched. White GSD (not to be confused with White Shepherd Dogs) are allowed in UKC, though, and show alongside colored dogs.
 

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The founding club or parent club of a breed decides the standard. The AKC is just a registry.
But the AKC puts on the shows and their approved judges decide who is the best and wins.This often affects the standard because many breeders produce whatever sells. I think the "standard" is a pretty flexible measurement, unfortunately and workability is not even taken in account.
Both my dogs have AKC papers to tell me their parents were purebreds, that's all.
OK, off my high horse now.
 

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But the AKC puts on the shows and their approved judges decide who is the best and wins.This often affects the standard because many breeders produce whatever sells. I think the "standard" is a pretty flexible measurement, unfortunately and workability is not even taken in account.
Both my dogs have AKC papers to tell me their parents were purebreds, that's all.
OK, off my high horse now.
No, the AKC does not put on shows. Individual clubs recognized by the AKC that use the rules set out by the AKC put on shows and trials. For shows to be sanctioned by the AKC they have to meet the requirements set out by the AKC and follow the rules set out by them.

ie. The Westminster Kennel Club show is hosted and paid for by the Westminster Kennel Club, not the American Kennel Club.
 

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Hmm interesting?? In Boxer land ... White Boxer are not allowed to show because they are Working Dog and "must be able to perform the "functions thereof." White Boxers are not acceptable for LE in Europe because White Dog are to easily seen at night, So White dogs are not allowed to perform the standard task of dogs of other colors.

Most likely who ever decided that ... has never not seen a 'White Boxer" charging towards them on recall on a Snowy Night ... I hope that "don't bounce off my chest thing" ... stuck??? :eek:
 

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No, the AKC does not put on shows. Individual clubs recognized by the AKC that use the rules set out by the AKC put on shows and trials. For shows to be sanctioned by the AKC they have to meet the requirements set out by the AKC and follow the rules set out by them.

ie. The Westminster Kennel Club show is hosted and paid for by the Westminster Kennel Club, not the American Kennel Club.
This is exactly why I have an issue with the AKC being called "only a registry".

The shows are sanctioned by AKC using rules and regulations put forth by AKC with judges santioned and tested by the AKC put on by clubs such as the Westminster Kennel Club that is a sanctioned club of the AKC..

What part of a show/event/trial does the AKC, just a registry, not control? If they were only a registry then they should not have their hands in any of the shows or events that determine the breed worthiness of an animal.
 

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Actually, the shows are put on by clubs. The clubs have lists of judges, and will choose a short list of judges which the club then approves before any judges are called and asked to judge one of their shows.

White is a disqualifying fault, like cryptorchid. The judges must disqualify a white dog in the conformation ring in AKC. In the UKC they may be shown. Not sure if they have their own class. In the SV, they cannot be shown or bred, and the Swiss shepherd has been created for white GSDs.

I think originally they thought albino or that it was a link to deafness. I think in some breeds the white dogs are more likely to be deaf. I guess not so in GSDs. Livers were supposed to be connected to a fatal gene. The nose not predominantly black disqualifies livers and blues. Livers are rare. Not sure if there is a gene that is linked to something fatal or not. But they did not want dilutes. White isn't a dilute, it is a masking gene. So, while it really does not affect their ability to DO anything, I don't have an issue with them not being show prospects or breeding prospects.
 

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Breed standards are blueprints of the ideal example of the breed....we all strive to meet that standard as responsible breeders....

When the breed was developed - a guardian breed that was white was used in development of the breed. The instincts were wanted, but the color was not. What I have heard and read theorized that white guardian breeds do not DISTURB the sheep mentally - they are accepted - thus Great Pyrenees, Mommaras, Kuvasz are all white and used as guardian breeds. As the GSD was a flock herding dog, the guardian instinct - rather than an aggressive attack the sheep instinct - was desirable, but the shepherds wanted the sheep to move away from the herding dog rather than just accept his presence. Thus the white color was not desireable....the darker dog - like a wolf - would trigger the sheep instinct to move away from the dog..... Hope this makes sense- it is a condensation of a much more lengthy explanation.


Lee
 

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This is exactly why I have an issue with the AKC being called "only a registry".

The shows are sanctioned by AKC using rules and regulations put forth by AKC with judges santioned and tested by the AKC put on by clubs such as the Westminster Kennel Club that is a sanctioned club of the AKC..

What part of a show/event/trial does the AKC, just a registry, not control? If they were only a registry then they should not have their hands in any of the shows or events that determine the breed worthiness of an animal.
actually, the training of Judges for a particular breed is decided by the parent club. So that would be the GSDCA. The AKC simply makes sure that a judge has done the correct amount of provisional time to learn the standards as set forth by that club.

They have no control of the show, what dogs are put up, what judges are hired, etc They simply record the results to be added to the pedigree of the winning dog.

AKC has no say over any of the process of what is to be judged or what will win in the ring.
 

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A judge in an all breed show is not decided by the GSDCA. Nowhere did I stipulate a "particular breed". My comment was a general response regarding the AKC as only a registry.
 

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Seems to me they almost always call out that they are sending the k9 before they do, so the dog is not trying to sneak up on the perp in the dark.

Originally, some were white. I wish, and I am sure this is an unpopular opinion, that exceptional white should be bred back into the general population and just meld it all back together. One thing I like about them is the build, they don't suffer from either of the show line extremes (or at least mine doesn't and I don't see those extremes in his breeder's dogs.

I will say this about the white hair, I was unprepared for it, I had a "yellow" German shepherd mix who I suspect was probably mostly a white with perhaps a dash of lab? Anyway, his shedding did not hold a candle to my new white. Holy cow. And I am raising him as a service dog candidate and the argument in that article about the white hair in public, that has crossed my mind. It is so visible and SO abundant! I have never before now had to keep a sticky roller in my truck because even though I use one before I leave the house I often realize there is a lot more I missed once I leave.

My first GSD was a sable, my female is I guess you call a blanket black and tan, she is mostly black. So here is my multi colored family, Ruger mellow yellow RIP
 

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Nice looking dogs!

LOL!!!

I wonder sometimes how my black and tan girls can spew so much light hair on all my dark clothes.
 
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