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Discussion Starter #1
Discussing this with a friend.
Sable female whose parents were ... Dad sable, Mom black and red. Only one other sable in 7 generation. All of the rest were solid black and black/tan saddleback
Black and red/tan male, nothing BUT black and red/tan dogs in 12 generations.

Is is correct that these two would most likely produce more sables than black and red/tan? Hearing that the best you could expect is 50/50, but that it should be expected to have 70-100% sable. Is this correct? I tried reading the in depth, and got lost, so I am asking in laymans terms!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
And... even more odd, one of her males is all black, with only one all black about 5 generations back, rest are black and tan... I thought it was a bit different than that, but I guess I midunderstand it all! Any expertise is going to fuel for our next conversation ;) And... no jokes about the fact that this is the type of thing we talk about over our morning coffee ;)
 

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How can there only be one other sable in 7 generations? Don't you need a sable to get a sable?
 

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post a pedigree.

That sable sire , each and every generation , needs to have one sable parent -- directly . That is what dominant gene means.

More than likely the sire is a faded colour , lot of bitch striping .

If you had pictures that would help. But in order to be a sable one parent needs to be , generated from a pairing with a sable , generated from a grand parent with at least one sable --- sable does not go into hiding . That would make it a recessive gene, which it is not.
 

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then what needs to happen is that Daddy sable needs to be DNA'd and that should prove that Daddy's pedigree is wrong . He can not come from two parents that are black and red . What ever kennel he came from must have a sable on property that snuck in for a tryst with the female and planted his sable seed !!
 

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Another possibility is that a pattern sable was incorrectly registered as a black and brown (tan or red).....I know a dog that from photos you would swear is black and tan but he is a sable....when sellers hand off an AKC app to a buyer, it is easy enough for someone (esp a novice or pet owner) to have made an error on a pattern dog ....

Lee
 

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Another possibility is that a pattern sable was incorrectly registered as a black and brown (tan or red).....I know a dog that from photos you would swear is black and tan but he is a sable....when sellers hand off an AKC app to a buyer, it is easy enough for someone (esp a novice or pet owner) to have made an error on a pattern dog ....

Lee
Pictures on pedigree database can be misleading. I have a patterned sable and, in the right light, he looks like a black and tan. There is zero doubt he is sable and that is certainly what they can be seeing.
 

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saw this thread and read it, pulled Sadies pedigree down and only ONE dog has sable ... her father...... all the rest of the dogs are either black/red or black/tan or black/cream or just black.... her fathers parents and grandparents have no sable in it . .... wonder who else contributed to her sable color lol......:eek:



 

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Post the pedigree. Sable does not come from saddleback or black. Period. There are some discussions on pedigree where there can be speculation - complex things like hip dysplasia but coat color is extremely well established for many many years. Pictures can be misleading.


THIS dog is a sable.

Adult picture


Puppy picture
 

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sadies is akc (which doesnt mean a thing to me since she is a rescue dog)

parents: orrick of watts acres, SBL (sire), Damion of watts acres,BLK (dam)

orrick parents: sarge of watts acres blk & tan sire
zoe von fuerstenberg , blk & red dam

damion parents: same as orricks parents

orrick grandparents father side: elvis of mason acres, blk & cr
dixie of mason acres, blk & tan
orrick grandparents mother side: cujo blu blk & tan
sweet sabrina B, blk & red

damion grandparents side father side : elvis of mason acres, blk & cr
dixie of mason acres, blk & tan

grandparents mothers side: cujo blu, blk & tn
sweet sabrina B, Blk & Rd

i did find this on the ukc site its her grandparents and great grandparents:

Sarge Of Watts Acres

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=666861&p=5-generation-pedigree

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=666856

grandparents grandkid:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=666735
 

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There are too few pictures but you can clearly see sables in the woodpile way back!

It is not like the color police come and inspect the dog to ensure the "right thing" gets put on the pedigree. I had to correct the vet when she went to put Beau's color on his vet chart as she was going to put black and tan. My female Cyra was listed by the breeder as a bicolor but she was a blanket black. I never corrected it because I never bothered to register her.
 

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There are too few pictures but you can clearly see sables in the woodpile way back!

It is not like the color police come and inspect the dog to ensure the "right thing" gets put on the pedigree. I had to correct the vet when she went to put Beau's color on his vet chart as she was going to put black and tan. My female Cyra was listed by the breeder as a bicolor but she was a blanket black. I never corrected it because I never bothered to register her.
That is too true. The vet school put Anik down as "black" when he is most definitely a sable.
And people call Ari a black and tan because his overlay is so dark they don't always realize he is a sable.
And Cora is listed as blk/red, she is a bi-color.
 

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Another possibility is that a pattern sable was incorrectly registered as a black and brown (tan or red).....I know a dog that from photos you would swear is black and tan but he is a sable....when sellers hand off an AKC app to a buyer, it is easy enough for someone (esp a novice or pet owner) to have made an error on a pattern dog ....

Lee
Yeah or if this is a WGSL pedigree, there are some popular sables, more common than people think, but usually are very patterned red sable so might be mistaken for black and red.

My own patterned sable (out of two sable parents) has been incorrectly identified as a black and tan by people on this forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Sorry I missed so much today...

Her AKC pedigree does not show another Sable besides the female in questions father. His parents were black/tan. I do , however, think that again, your stance on saying that so many people out there misinterpret the very prodominant saddle markings as black and tan.

So, that being said...

The question still remains.. Does a sable parent, since THIS particular female is an obvious sable as far as I could tell, produce more sables in a litter, even if the male is ALL black and reds from WG, and she carried a large amount of black/tan and blacks? I was more interested in that part. I actually did bring up with my friend that I personally even very recently went to inquire about a last female in a litter while I was traveling, and the breeder showed me a sable puppy that someone like myself would have thought was a black/tan!
 
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