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Discussion Starter #1
I am just trying to get the take of the members on this board. Do you feel it is genetic or some other cause and why?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I read a study that linked it to the distemper (I think) vaccine.

I read that there is a possible correlation to distemper vaccine as well, but I think it was due to the drastic rise in pano cases after the vaccine started.
 

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I'd be interested to know. Luckily so far I haven't seen it in my own dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I know I have done alot of reading on it lately, and more and more texts refer to it as a propable genetic condition. However, no specific genes have been found or seperated but it does have a large tendency to run in the same lines and families.

Just as a disclaimer, I have never had a dog suffer from it and neither of my current dogs have or have had pano. This is just yet another subject I am interested in and would like to know more thoughts and studies. :)
 

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I believe it's diet related. Kibble has gotten to the point where there are rather excessive amounts of some nutrients in order to be able to feed dogs of all sizes. My previous kibble fed dogs did get pano. My dogs that were fed a home prepared diet that met their exact NRC needs, didn't, and from I'm told, none of the puppies that have had diets designed this way by Monica, haven't either.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
One thing I found interesting is that Leerburg switched to a raw diet and originally assumed the diet would get rid of the pano. Low and behold, pano. Are all of your dogs from the same lines or they all from different ones? If they are the same lines, it would be interesting to know the effects of the diets.
 

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From what I've seen, Pano tends to be found in dogs that grow quickly. That can be influenced by a number of factors including diet and genetics.

Rayden had pano on RAW and on kibble. Singe was starting to show some signs - we took him off the puppy food and his growth slowed down - no more growing pains
 

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I agree with Dainerra, genetics and diet.
I've had two dogs that went through bouts of Pano.
Onyx had 3 severe cases beginning when she was 6 months(kibble fed until then) She grew fast, thick bones as a pup and as an adult is 26" and 90# She was spayed during her 1st Pano bout....came down with it the day before her spay.
Karlo had two mild bouts/ 11 months first one 14 mos second bout/ and raw fed since weaning. He also grew fast, and as an adult is 27" and 90#. He is intact.
I don't know that the raw diet played into it as much as the genetic structure factor.
These show how similar they are in bone(they are not related....I don't have Onyx's pedigree to know her lines):

 

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Discussion Starter #10
Is it that diet lessens the impact though? I don't think it would change the fact that the dog will get it, but I think what you feed can minimize the overall effects of it.
 

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With Karlo I supplemented with vitamin C and his bouts were very mild. I didn't know about C's benefits when Onyx went through it. C will reduce inflammation, and I believe it did help lessen Karlo's.
 

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I think weight plays a huge factor. Whether raw or kibble keeping them lean makes a big difference. I think on leerburg, his last dog that got pano in raw was a tad too thick. Once them got him down a couple pounds it went away.


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I would say genetic in how fast the parents grow. Does the line grow slow and steady? Or fast and then slow? Or do they tend to have spurts of rapid growth? Has there been any research to see if there is any correlation to growth patterns?


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Discussion Starter #14
I think weight plays a huge factor. Whether raw or kibble keeping them lean makes a big difference. I think on leerburg, his last dog that got pano in raw was a tad too thick. Once them got him down a couple pounds it went away.


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With that article, the dog in question was actually not overweight. It was just not as lean as Ed Frawley would normally keep his dogs by a couple of pounds. This was a mal that came from a very large boned sire that was 85 plus pounds.

He originally had the thought that switching to raw was the answer to pano. He found with this dog it was not. The dog was raw fed and still got pano.
 

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He originally had the thought that switching to raw was the answer to pano. He found with this dog it was not. The dog was raw fed and still got pano.
Just feeding raw is not the answer because most of those diets have some crazy nutritional profiles. Meeting your dog's exact nutritional needs is. My dog were fed to NRC requirements and did not get pano, nor has any of the dogs fed this way that I am aware of. The littermates to my dogs did get pano.
 

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My one male had bad bouts of pano from about 5 months until he turned 2. After it started I was sure to keep him lean. He was raised on a grain free, free range meats kibble. I fed many different foods (never full raw though), tried vit c, had calcium, phosphorus, protein etc.. levels down to a pat. I tried every last thing I could and it never seemed to affect the pano bouts. I even considered trying dog chow as people with random bred, cheaply fed dogs seem to have no issues haha. He eventually outgrew it and thank god it is over. There has been a few dogs with the same sire that have had bouts of pano, but not as heavily as he did.
No one seems to have a real answer on if it is genetic or not, or if food affects it, or if xyz affects it. I remember reading once about a particular sire from the 50's or 60's that had pano and majority of our dogs today go back to that dog in one way or another. This was an asl dog but I have heard there was an influential german dog from way back when that had pano too. Who knows, but it really does plague our breed and it is a horrible thing for puppies to have to go through.
 

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You didn't feed to NRC requirements for your particular pup so you didn't have the nutritional levels down pat. Pano is horrible and can be avoided if they are fed correctly. I will say that feeding my way is a huge pain in the rear, but it's worth it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You didn't feed to NRC requirements for your particular pup so you didn't have the nutritional levels down pat. Pano is horrible and can be avoided if they are fed correctly. I will say that feeding my way is a huge pain in the rear, but it's worth it.

Saying this right here is right on the same level Leerburg was at. They thought the way they fed was the be all end all to keep from getting pano, until a pup came down with pano. This thought was shared and pushed so much, but it was refuted and shown to be not true.
 

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You didn't feed to NRC requirements for your particular pup so you didn't have the nutritional levels down pat. Pano is horrible and can be avoided if they are fed correctly. I will say that feeding my way is a huge pain in the rear, but it's worth it.
What is your way?
 
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