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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What I mean by "profit" is "GAIN money".

So my question is, is it really a bad thing if a breeder makes a profit off of breeding?

A reputable breeder will be lucky to break even, but what if someone who knows the ropes actually knows how to profit from it?

So let's say you get the breeding female for . . . $2500. You breed her to a stud and that's $3000 (The numbers are probably way off, but bare with me, this is just an example)

$5500

Let's say the female tests positive for pregnancy. Oh, don't forget getting Hips and other things certified.

Okay, I'm guessing . . . $500 to certify everything?

$6000

Vet check ups and stuff = $250 to $500

$6500

She has the puppies. Let's say she has six puppies.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but all that example breeder has to do is sell each puppy for $1500 - $2000.

Everything that is needed is certified and the mother and father both have the desired titles.

Now, I didn't include every single cost so a breeder on here will probably come in and correct me.

But what I don't get is, what's wrong with a breeder making a profit, especially if the puppies are worth that price?

What inspired me to make this thread was I surfing and I found a book that stated that it's not reallly a bad thing if a breeder makes a profit off of breeding.

What do you guys think?
 

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Did you see this thread?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...tion-breeders-sister-laws-school-project.html

It's not that it's inherently immoral to make a profit from breeding dogs, it's just that it's really hard to make a profit and still do all the things the breeders in that thread mentioned. You've been on this board enough to know that the costs of breeding far exceed obtaining a bitch, getting her pregnant, and paying some vet costs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Did you see this thread?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...tion-breeders-sister-laws-school-project.html

It's not that it's inherently immoral to make a profit from breeding dogs, it's just that it's really hard to make a profit and still do all the things the breeders in that thread mentioned. You've been on this board enough to know that the costs of breeding far exceed obtaining a bitch, getting her pregnant, and paying some vet costs.
Okay. I'm sorry. Nevermind.
 

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Don't be sorry. :) Your book may not have been wrong either. Someone could be breeding, say. . . Pugs or Shih-tzus. So far as I know those dogs don't have the expenses associated with training and titling that GSDs do. So maybe you can be a reputable breeder of Chihuahuas and make a profit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
To be honest, I was bored and I remembered something someone said in the past, and I just wanted to post a topic about it and see what you guys thought. I had completely forgot about that thread.
 

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Whether or not a breeder makes a profit shouldn't really be an issue, it's what kind of dogs they're producing that counts. If they can produce great dogs and make a profit more power to them.

GSD Fan, do you think they should make a profit?
 

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Not sure you should include the costs of titling in breeding as many owners would do that anyway whether they were planning to breed or not, don't you think?
I've never thought people should include the costs of titling the dog, as you'll never be able to make all that back.

Jon and I have already dropped quite a bit of money showing Mirada in just 5 show weekends already. We'll never make that back in puppy sales, so why include it?
 

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I've never thought people should include the costs of titling the dog, as you'll never be able to make all that back.

Jon and I have already dropped quite a bit of money showing Mirada in just 5 show weekends already. We'll never make that back in puppy sales, so why include it?
That's the point! ;) In many people's opinions, the titles on the dogs being bred are part of what's important. It's that the breeder took the time/effort/money involved to find the best breeding dogs possible. It counts because it's part of the selection process. It's part of the reason people say you don't make a profit with ethical breeding, because of everything that goes in to titling dogs.

That's always the way I've understood it, anyway. :)
 

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It's that the breeder took the time/effort/money involved to find the best breeding dogs possible. It counts because it's part of the selection process. It's part of the reason people say you don't make a profit with ethical breeding, because of everything that goes in to titling dogs.
:)
If a breeder is actually running a legitimate business, they're filing with the IRS. (in the US) The costs of entering trials, shows, travel expenses to those shows, hotel fares, camper hookups etc. would all be taken as an expense as well as stud fees, dog food, etc. etc. etc.
To show a profit their income must be higher than their expenses. It should be fairly easy for a breeder to show a loss at least on paper.

If they don't show a profit within a given number of years, or if they can't prove that they are at least making a legitimate attempt to make a profit their status is changed to hobbyist and then the tax laws change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
GSD Fan, do you think they should make a profit?
Yes, I do. I think that dog breeding is really a business and in a business you make a profit.

I hate it when people say that if you make a profit, you're not a good breeder. It's like you absolutely must lose to be a good breeder.

Now, people love the breed but people can also love selling when in a company.

That's how I feel about it. It's unfair to classify anyone making a profit off breeding as a BYB or puppy mill.

You should be looking at what they're putting into the business and the quality of what they are producing.
 

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It is possible to make profit off of it and be a responsible breeder. But you need to be so good, you need to be one of the top-breeders to do that.

There are people who sell dogs for the kind of money you bought your house for. It is possible but only if you are one of the top people.

How do you think some of the breeders over here do it? They make a profit off of selling dogs to the US for dozens of years already and most of them are very responsible breeders.

Some people don't do anything but breeding and showing dogs for a living, over here because they are so big that that is their job and they live very well off of it but that's because they are so good that they can afford doing it. In fact, it's the dream of every reputable breeder to be so good, so well respected and know throughout the world. Because that's when they leave something behind.

My dad once said: Nobody will remember me but they will remember my dogs.
And that is the truth.
 

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I don't think it's intrinsically wrong to make a profit from breeding; the problem comes in when the pursuit of profit begins to outweigh the considerations for living, breathing animals and the breeder starts cutting corners.
 

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As long as a breeder is reputable I don't get heartburn if they make a profit by pricing their puppies/adults over and above their expenses/costs.
 

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I think the reason that you hear so many people say that it's bad to profit is the frame of mind of the breeder. Are the dogs your goal? Or is it the $$? There is nothing wrong with making a profit, but how do you make a profit?
A reputable breeder wants to improve the breed and they do everything in their power to make sure that the dogs they produce are the best. They feed the best food; they title/herd/schutzhund with their dogs; they get the best stud for their bitch, etc etc They vet the bitch and keep close tabs on her as the pregnancy progresses.

How do you run a business for a profit however? You minimize expenses and maximize the $$ coming in. Most people who make a profit do it that way. They get a bitch, AKC registered, but that is the main requisite. Continental Kennel Club is ok too, most people just hear "registered" and think it's all the same. They don't feed the best food - Ol Roy is easily available and cheap. They don't title their bitch or work her in any way; she's AKC and purebred so people will buy the pups. They don't search for the stud that best compliments their bitch - the neighbor down the street has a male and will breed in return for a puppy. They don't give the bitch extra vet care while she is pregnant; she might not even have a regular vet.

So, that is why you hear "profit is bad" Profit isn't bad, but sitting yourself up with the idea that profit is mandatory too often leads to cutting corners. I've never asked a breeder "Have you made a profit?" I look at the quality of their dogs and the work that they put into them.
 

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Yes, I do. I think that dog breeding is really a business and in a business you make a profit.

I hate it when people say that if you make a profit, you're not a good breeder. It's like you absolutely must lose to be a good breeder.

Now, people love the breed but people can also love selling when in a company.

That's how I feel about it. It's unfair to classify anyone making a profit off breeding as a BYB or puppy mill.

You should be looking at what they're putting into the business and the quality of what they are producing.

Wel, if there's no profit in it (in either dog quality or money made) why do it?

The idea that making a monetary profit from breeding dogs is "wrong" is ludicrous. The idea that losing money by breeding dogs is "right" is equally ludicrous.

Profiting by deception is wrong, and losing money struggling to do something well is incompetence.

In the end, the best breeders profit by producing good dogs consistently enough so that people continually seek them out.

Jack




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AFTER all the initial financial debits..(purchase price/titles/stud fee/shipping costs etc..) and routine, expected & UNEXPECTED costs figure into a breeding.....if we produce the puppy(ies) we expected for ourselves...then all $$ that EXCEED the initial investment...is greatly appreciated.
I have no negative opinion in regards to breeders that make a financial living, investing in their dogs & breeding from them.
Many times...the costs & time invested, will be higher than the "profit margin"....
I wish that I could stay home and do the "thing" I love best! (breeding/showing/training)...but alas, ....I must work to "support" my dogs.
...perhaps someday???!......
 
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