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Discussion Starter #1
I posted a while back in the behavior section that we were having problems with Wolfgang and other dogs. Outside of his sister, he just barks and barks at other dogs.

We had him evaluated by a trainer and basically he's exhibiting not fear aggression but more confusion as to how to act. So we have some work cut out for us.

We have the option of traditional training or e-collar training. Now I do think he'd do really well with the traditional training - he's definately looking to us for leadership, and needs to gain more confidence and we both feel like we'll benefit from training with that! But Wolfgang is a really smart boy - unlike his sister who is happy to hang out in the backyard, he's the type who is going to need activity or competition... That being said we are definitely looking at gearing towards obedience competition or some sort of sport.

Opinions on which the best method is - he knows all his commands and he's pretty good unless theres another dog around then all bets are off. He's 15 months old.

Bring it on! The good, the bad and the ugly!
 

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Either one will work and you will receive multiple replies as to which method will work better. In the end it is your decision.

Please folks lets not make this an ongoing debate. Feel free to post your opinions and respect others for having different opinions.
 

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Originally Posted By: Timber1For now avoid the E-Collar. How old is wolfgang???
15 months -

I am really interested in opinions, I do know ultimately the decision is ours but I respect everyones opinion whether they agree or disagree!
 

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I think e-collars are awesome! With that said, you have to first educate the dog as to what the stimulation actually means.

I've seen MANY people, especially those that have been already training their dog with traditional methods, who don't realize this. Then, when they stim the dog, they think the dog already knows what the stim means, but he doesn't, so he doesn't respond the way the owner thinks he should. Think about it, when you teach a dog with traditional methods, he knows what a tug on the collar means. Now, he feels this lite tingling sensation and goes, "What was that?" He doesn't even know he's supposed to do something, let alone know that that thing was, you know what I mean?

So, what do these people do? They raise the stim level thinking it wasn't strong enough. Pretty soon, it HURTS the dog.

But, if you spend the time to teach the dog that the stim is the same as say, a leash tug, then you can use a low level and it really is more humane, in my opinion, than any other standard method that can produce a 99.99% reliable dog. No dog is perfect, which is why I left .001% room for error.


I've been training dogs for more than 25 years now, and I've also seen people that think that an e-collar is a cure-all, or substitute. These types of people end up getting extremely frustrated, and use a high stim level on the dog for everything. The result is what we call a "burned dog", not because of the electrocution or anything, it's just a term. A burned dog will be reliable, for sure, but not in an enthusiatic way. He comes running to you with his head down, instead of bounding to you with joy.

But, do it right, take it slow, like with any other method, and you can train a dog to be reliable with an e-collar much faster than using ONLY standard methods.

Disclaimer: This is ONLY MY opinion and experience. Your mileage may vary. I do not recommend the use of an e-collar without consultation of a professional animal behaviorist. I am not liable for any of your attempts to .... yada, yada.


Now, as Johnny Storm from the Fantastic Four would say, "Flame on!"
I'll get the popcorn, now.
 

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I have no qualms about e-collars but I don't think I'd use one to socialize the dog. Nikon is acting the same way you describe and my plan is simply to take him on walks and if he locks in on another dog, I will turn around and go the other way. He can move close if he stays calm. When he greets dogs he is pretty nice, he sniffs them, licks them, and wants to play. But when he is on a leash he just gets excited really fast, and that becomes frustration because he is being inhibited by the leash. He needs to be socialized more and learn what is appropriate when greeting other dogs. I'm not really sure how an e-collar would help since there is no real command or trick being learned. For us we will just work on more desensitization and rewarding the behavior I want with food and being allowed to move closer. When he acts up, he loses the opportunity to play with that dog and back we go.
 

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I started using an e-collar on my male about a month ago and have had fantastic results. I traveled 1400 miles round trip to work with an excellent trainer to get started. My dog's working level on the collar is 12 (out of 127). I can't even begin to feel it until 17. I think that using the e-collar as I have been taught clarifies the training for the dog.

There are many different ways to use the e-collar. I would suggest you find a good trainer to work with and to go with your gut feeling on whether this training method is right for you and your dog.
 

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Originally Posted By: LiesjeI have no qualms about e-collars but I don't think I'd use one to socialize the dog....I'm not really sure how an e-collar would help since there is no real command or trick being learned.
I agree. That is, unless you want the dog to do something under command while around other dogs, like sit, stay, etc.
 

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I think the OP can benefit from this part of the thread, too, which is why I asked when you posted.

I stated with the Tri-tronics line, but to me, they sucked because they jumped too far in power between settings. I really like how infinitely adjustable the newer Dogtra models are.

My first experience with the Dogtra line was with the new 280NCP, but exchanged it within my 30-day return period for the new 1900NCP. I really liked the compact size of the 280NCP, and the fact that the vibration mode was stronger than the 1900, but at the time even though, like you, I only ever needed a low setting, I could not shake KNOWING there was a more powerful model out there.


Of course, I forgot the fact that you soon end up not even needing to use the collar at all anyway, so you never even see the "more power", you know what I mean? I guess it's a guy thing, you know, "more is better".


I also don't feel anything until about 15, and just BARELY. My mother-in-law doesn't feel anything until 19! Hmmm... I wonder what theory that proves?
 

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Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot
Originally Posted By: ahlamarana


I can't believe you got her to try it!!
Hey, I didn't even think of it that way. I guess that means it's a GOOD thing!
Aloha, it depends on what trick or obedience you are trying to teach your Mother-in-law. I've heard some trainers have to up as high as 26 on their Mothers-in-law.

frank
 

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Originally Posted By: adas
Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot
Originally Posted By: ahlamarana


I can't believe you got her to try it!!
Hey, I didn't even think of it that way. I guess that means it's a GOOD thing!
Aloha, it depends on what trick or obedience you are trying to teach your Mother-in-law. I've heard some trainers have to up as high as 26 on their Mothers-in-law.

frank
Eh, Frank, Brah, you too funny!

Mahalo fo' da post, Brah!
 

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Clare, if you're looking at obedience or another competitive sport, I would highly recommend that you not go to a shock collar at this time.

If you can find someone in your area who teaches competition classes and who can help you focus your dog's drive and ambition in the right direction for competition, you'll probably do great without ever having to spend the money on a shock collar. Most competition obedience people do a tremendous amount of training using rewards based on what the dog really likes. This helps keep the enthusiasm in the dog very high and allows that enthusiasm to remain even under stressful competition circumstances (when YOU are feeling worried and stressed too!).

Corrections, including the shock collar, can be helpful at the right time, but nothing in what you've posted makes me think that you should run out and buy a shock collar. The step you should take at this point is to find a good trainer who can help you toward your goal of competition. If obedience isn't the sport you choose, you still may want to do agility or tracking, and for the most part those are taught using a minimal of corrections (often no real corrections until the dog has learned the behaviors extensively). And in the learning of those behaviors, he will also learn to ignore other dogs and to not bark at them. Once his focus has been directed to the behaviors you want, he'll have no need to bark at the others. Barking is often just a symptom of boredom.

Good luck, and hope you can find someone near you that is a great trainer!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
 

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I think the Ecollar is the best tool for the average pet owner (whatever than means). It allows them to get desired behaviors very quickly with little effort. It also gives them good control in many situations that are problematic, such as you mention when "other dogs [are]around."

I'd suggest that you take a look at the articles HERE. for information as to how I recommend that the tool be used. There are also articles that will help you make a choice among the various brands.
 

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Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot
Originally Posted By: LiesjeI have no qualms about e-collars but I don't think I'd use one to socialize the dog....I'm not really sure how an e-collar would help since there is no real command or trick being learned.
I agree. That is, unless you want the dog to do something under command while around other dogs, like sit, stay, etc.
Agreed on all the above. We just started e-collar training a couple weeks ago. It's working out great for training, but we don't use for socialization. I have used it on a few walks to solidify commands with other dogs around. Again, worked out great.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
We've decided against the e-collar. At least for now. Wolfgang is VERY smart and gets bored very easily. Just using a prong correctly has improved his leash skills tremendously.

We are going to work with a great trainer to get him over his anxiety with other dogs and to train us as well. Sasha was so easy and eager to please - this one has a little bit of a beligerent streak in him... After all he is a 15 month old boy!!!

Keep you posted on our progress!!!
 

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Quote: We are going to work with a great trainer to get him over his anxiety with other dogs and to train us as well. Sasha was so easy and eager to please - this one has a little bit of a beligerent streak in him... After all he is a 15 month old boy!!!
Good for you for working on this. Keep up posted on the progress!
 
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