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Looks like a purebred GSD pup!

I'd flag the ad because the rehoming fee isn't listed.

With CL, with this kind of ad, I would want to see the pup in person before procuring it.

That's the only way to know for sure it matches the ad description.
 

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I wish I could zoom in on the AKC papers for the female, yes she looks to young to breed. UGH....I wonder how much these BYB ers are selling these pups for, it is heartbreaking. This is my only complaint of quality breeders who allow limited registration without a spay/neuter clause. It allows people to do this exact thing, without caring to promote quality health tests, and bettering the breed. All they care about is making money.
 

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By selling with limited registration, the breeders ARE being responsible. Puppies can't be registered, which encourages the prospective owners to get out there and do something with their pups (some breeders will change the registration to 'full' once titles have been earned for example). There will always be unethical people out there and you can't always vet them all out beforehand.

A spay/neuter stipulation is worth the paper it's printed on .. so ... 5 cents? it's not like there is a box to check on the registration papers for that. Since it's recommended to wait until at least 18 months - 2 years to alter, that's a long time for a breeder to big brother a pup's owners.
 

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They probably would have bred without papers at all. My dog is on limited registration and my breeder wants owners to not spay or neuter until at least 2. A spay or neuter clause doesn't stop BYB.
 

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I wish I could zoom in on the AKC papers for the female, yes she looks to young to breed. UGH....I wonder how much these BYB ers are selling these pups for, it is heartbreaking. This is my only complaint of quality breeders who allow limited registration without a spay/neuter clause. It allows people to do this exact thing, without caring to promote quality health tests, and bettering the breed. All they care about is making money.
That's sad. You don't have full disclosure and a legitimate breeder should disclose the dog's genetic profile including whether its susceptible to conditions like hip dysplaysia and neuropathy so people know up front what to expect should their dog come down with these things later in life. And papers should be provided on condition of getting the dog spayed/neutered. That what I did when I acquired my dog from the breeder prior to getting her papers. As you noted BYB ers, only care about making money, not about the dog or the satisfaction of the potential adopter. We're talking about a purebred dog here and here you should know what you're getting or you might as well not bother with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Limited registration is a tool that we can use only. We cant guarantee the buyers will honor what we've suggested. It all boils down to who we sell to and how well we screen them. But people are good at lying unfortunately,tell us what we want to hear.... Its a lesson to be learned... I breed labradors but the principal is the same and we all want to look out for our pups best interest. If I found a litter from my breeding on craigslist I would just die! UGH!
 

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This is my only complaint of quality breeders who allow limited registration without a spay/neuter clause.
Maybe I am playing devil's advocate here... but in light of all the studies on health benefits of leaving a dog intact I personally would not consider a breeder with a blanket all-pet-puppies-must-be-nuetered-period contract to be a quality breeder. It would honestly make me question how knowledgeable they are about K9 health and how much they care about the lifetime health of their puppies.

I will never buy a dog that has a spay/neuter clause in its contract.

Actually to be honest I dislike a lot of puppy contracts I have seen. *shrug*

Anywho, yeah breeding like this makes me sad. Doesn't look like there is much quality going back on either side for generations.
 

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Maybe I am playing devil's advocate here... but in light of all the studies on health benefits of leaving a dog intact I personally would not consider a breeder with a blanket all-pet-puppies-must-be-nuetered-period contract to be a quality breeder. It would honestly make me question how knowledgeable they are about K9 health and how much they care about the lifetime health of their puppies.

I will never buy a dog that has a spay/neuter clause in its contract.

Actually to be honest I dislike a lot of puppy contracts I have seen. *shrug*

Anywho, yeah breeding like this makes me sad. Doesn't look like there is much quality going back on either side for generations.
Contract or not, how could they ever enforce this? Not like the breeder can force you to provide medical proof of a spay/neuter (or will even try).

IIRC, my breeder's contract had a spay clause. The number of times she's reached out to me post-purchase? Zero. Granted, better breeders may take more interest in their pup's futures, but not to the point of forcing you to alter the animal.
 

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Maybe I am playing devil's advocate here... but in light of all the studies on health benefits of leaving a dog intact I personally would not consider a breeder with a blanket all-pet-puppies-must-be-nuetered-period contract to be a quality breeder. It would honestly make me question how knowledgeable they are about K9 health and how much they care about the lifetime health of their puppies.

I will never buy a dog that has a spay/neuter clause in its contract.

Actually to be honest I dislike a lot of puppy contracts I have seen. *shrug*

Anywho, yeah breeding like this makes me sad. Doesn't look like there is much quality going back on either side for generations.

The reason for the spay/neuter clause is to prevent unwanted breeding, especially if you're adopting the dog as a pet. There are too many unwanted puppies/dogs and not enough good homes for all of them. So I understand it. If you want to be a breeder, you can ask for the clause to be removed. But people should not irresponsibly breed animals without considering whether good forever homes will be available for them. Remember, it takes only one time to produce a litter so people need to be responsible.
 

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The reason for the spay/neuter clause is to prevent unwanted breeding, especially if you're adopting the dog as a pet. There are too many unwanted puppies/dogs and not enough good homes for all of them. So I understand it. If you want to be a breeder, you can ask for the clause to be removed. But people should not irresponsibly breed animals without considering whether good forever homes will be available for them. Remember, it takes only one time to produce a litter so people need to be responsible
I have absolutely no intention of breeding. I just want a pet, but I will not neuter or spay unless absolutely medically neccessary. Too many health risks come along with altering IMHO. What I have a problem with is being contractually obligated to risk the health of *my* dog for the benefit of hypothetical puppies that may or may not ever exist. That does not bode well with me.

When I was puppy shopping I found several breeders who had no requirement to alter their pet quality dogs. The only clause they had regarding spay/neuter is that if the pet owner altered before a certain age it would void the health guarantee.

My point being that I don't think that breeders who demand spay/neuter have the best health interest of their pup's in mind. As a buyer I am much more comfortable purchasing a pup without a spay/neuter clause regardless on if I am getting full, limited, or no papers at all.
 

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To the potential pet owners that don't have the money to pay over 1k for a dog, there is a thought process that self justifies and allows them to buy these types of pups.

1. Well - the parents are registered, so we can see that the pup is from good stock.

2. Breeders use "full" or "limited" registration solely as a method of maintaining higher prices for their pups. Some will buy and pay more for full registration. because some must have a Mercedes and some are fine with a pickup. We're "pickup truck people".

3. Why should we pay for a registered pup when we can see the parents and grandparents are good and we never plan on breeding? We just want a GSD......

Problem; In most cases, the litter will be placed and things will work out just fine - reinforcing their theories. They got what they wanted and may consider those that pay high dollar with this contract and that registration and these restrictions - suckers or chumps.
 

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I find these discussions interesting. I am looking to purchase a long hair sable female in the next year or so. I don't plan on showing just agility. The problem I have is this. If I am to purchase a quality dog I will be spending $1,500 or more. I would have a hard time paying that kind of cash for a dog without full registration. I will not spay until possibly 2 yrs old or more. I have absolutely no interest in breeding her. So it isn't about that. Now on a lot of the breeders sites I have visited they will give full registration if your willing to pay more money. Isn't that the exact same thing as what these byb and people do. Money trumps what may be best for the breed.
 

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I paid $200 for my 3 year old AKC GSD with the papers.

If you're paying $1500 or more for a dog older than a year, maybe you're a chump.
 

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Did it ever occur to people that:

1. Registration is NOT a sign of good stock. It only signifies that any HD crippled nerve bag, or not, is a full blooded GSD.

2. Breeders use limited registration to restrict dogs produced in their breeding programs that they believe to be inferior from adding to the GSD gene pool.

3. Registration is a sign of a full blooded dog, anything less leads to the many threads on here "is my dog pure". Lack of registration also speaks volumes as to the intention of the breeder, with lack of registration signifying a desire to be a greeder, not a breeder, and with no interest to the quality of the pups being produced.

I am so tired of quality dogs being bashed on this forum.

I know that the breeder of my eldest dog paid $10,000.00 for my dog's adult mother. Why does paying for what you get equate to being a chump?
 

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I will be buying a pup. Maybe paying 1500 for a dog could be considered a chump. But, 1500 is cheaper than a possible lifetime of vet bills.
 

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Limited registration is a tool, but it is used incorrectly by too many people. In show circles, one provides a limited registration for a dog with a fault, that should not be bred for whatever reason, maybe for a litter that was a test litter, sometimes very inbred to set type, but they choose the best pup, and place the rest on a limited registration.

The point is, they do not want these dogs bred in the circles they are in with their dogs. The alternative is to cull these puppies, and nowadays no one wants to see pups culled.

Even a lot of good breeders use the limited registration as population control method, and it can't do that. The people who are irresponsible and will breed dogs with no papers or with limited papers, well a limited registration will not limit them. The AKC is not a police force. Only the serious breeders are not going to buy a pup on limited if their intention is to breed the dog. And these are the breeders no one is concerned with.

And spay/neuter contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, and some of us actually believe that it is unhealthy to perform an unnecessary surgery on a dog that deprives them of hormones and that could through the balance of their system off.

So breeders have to make judgment calls on people. If we do not trust someone with our dogs, we should not sell them our dog. And that includes decisions about whether or not they breed their dog.

Yes, yes, a yayhoo can go to another yayhoo and buy a dog with limited registration for half price and then breed the dog and make their money back, easily. Pay 6 or 8 hundred dollars for a dog, and 18 months later produce a litter of 7 and sell them for 2-4 hundred each and you have made your money back. And, you have done nothing illegal.

When you buy a dog with limited registration, you are not agreeing not to breed the dog. You are agreeing that puppies produced from the dog will not be AKC-registered -- big difference. So, these people do not even feel they are doing anything wrong. They are offering the pups without papers.

You do not have to pay these people a fortune to make them benefit from the deal either. So the puppies will go, and quickly, and the owners, will blame themselves if down the line the pups come down with something serious, or they will look at their neighbor's dog, that cost a small fortune, from a top breeder that also came down with something terrible, and well, they will just think, they are glad they did not pay a lot for the dog too.

The answer of course is to educate potential buyers, but potential buyers don't want to be educated. It is futile. It isn't going to go away. And there is no point in being mad about it. They aren't doing anything illegal. They may not be doing anything unethical, if they did not agree not to breed the dog.
 
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